Posted on Jul 6, 2016
Would you rather see a written exam for NCO promotions in the Army?
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Responses: 31
This question comes up about once a year.
It briefs well; impossible to implement well.
How many Army people would miss out on promotion because they are in joint assignments, at small posts, remote locations, extended TDY, etc? It would be nearly impossible to fit in all the testers in large bases annually. The end centers would be overloaded. Then you have the small units that are hours away from the closest Army ed center.
It briefs well; impossible to implement well.
How many Army people would miss out on promotion because they are in joint assignments, at small posts, remote locations, extended TDY, etc? It would be nearly impossible to fit in all the testers in large bases annually. The end centers would be overloaded. Then you have the small units that are hours away from the closest Army ed center.
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SFC (Join to see)
The simple answer is to make test results carry on as long as you are in the same pay grade and not an annual requirement. This makes sense on the assumption that you will not lose knowledge you have gained. Unlike physical fitness you can be reasonably sure that most people only increase their knowledge base, rather than allowing it to deteriorate.
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SSG Daniel Deiler
I'm not sure why it would be difficult to implement even at the smallest or remotest of bases. Ed centers are already under utilized. However in the rare instances where they are, to alleviate any overloading and still allow testing to happen at any small/remote/joint base assignments it would be too easy to certify a senior NCO or officer to proctor and/or administer the exam. If that cannot be accomplished, the testing can be made available to the tester online and then supervised by another Leader not in that Soldiers immediate chain of command or NCO support channel.
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We used to have an annual mandatory “Skills Qualification Test”. Every year you went down to the Ed center and took it. Some people are not good test takers and some people are. Someone’s career should be partially determined by their ability to take a written test. I’d rather opt for the in person board where humans met other humans and based the decision on an actual face to face meeting.
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" I would like to see MOS specific test."
Is a common response, from those of us that took that very test, we can tell you the grass is not greener on the other side.
1: We often task SM to work outside their assigned MOS...It is not their fault that perishable knowledge is wasting away because the Army will not create a Training room clerk position, that means EVERY company level unit is the Army has an SM working that vital role out of MOS. And there are thousands of other SM working out of MOS every day from 12 month tasking as a life guard to being tasked to be the CDR driver.
2: Flash to bang.... The test was often years behind current equipment fielded.. You had questions on equipment you had never seen, was outdated and replaced before you cam in the Army..yet its still in the inventory, still in the MOS skill AR, so you still have to know it.
3: Not all units are equipped the same, that can be physical equipment or software / hardware systems .. So the 11B in one unit has issued equipment and is an expert on it, but the MOS Q test has questions pertaining to equipment he has never seen. The Automated Supply specialist is a wiz on the software / Hardware system in place in his unit, he can order, track, receive, verify, adjust and supply any line item authorized to he CDR, But the MOS Q test questions for his MOS are based on a newer (or older, or alternate) system he has never seen nor used.
4: The test are standardized for "fairness and consistency" The shear size if the Service means testing will be done over many months throughout the year working with deployments, training, block leave,ect. The test questions are fixed some many months in advance, so unit A in FT Mead gets the 63Y test in January and 63Y SM in unit B in Alaska get the same test in July..... the test was comprised and known after the first few units have taken it, by the time the last units are taking that same test, its hardly "fair" as those so inclined have the test questions in whole to study from, or at least know the "trick" questions they have to study up on knowing its not current info for their current unit, but still tested.
5: The test have to be written to the lowest common denominator, which changes as the enlistment standards go up or down across the year(s) Create the test to challenge and give fair evaluation to the current education standard and you may be unfairly handicapping a demographic from an earlier standard. Write the test to the lowest common denominator and your not getting a good evaluation of those that were required to be educated and experienced to a higher standard upon entrance.
There are other issues like staffing and manpower .... You either have to create thousands of new jobs then fill them with SM as an actual assignment (all out of MOS now, see point #1)
You create these jobs and task them as an additional duty, so now you have taken resources and manpower from a unit for most of the year to facilitate testing..Who is doing their job while they are tasked out? and of course see point 1 above as well.
You create these Jobs, make it a new MOS and then resource it with re class, reenlistments and new enlistments ..but of course now you have created yet another low density MOS that has limited career progression meaning no motivation to excel in the MOS as there is a hugely limited opportunities for promoted and serve in positions of higher responsibility. ...or they are forced reclass after say SSG and now fill a new MOS NCO role having no experience and limited training to perform at the highest levels in the new MOS....Oh ya and next year, they will be taking the MOS Q for their new MOS .......Experts in their rjob? not likely.
Is a common response, from those of us that took that very test, we can tell you the grass is not greener on the other side.
1: We often task SM to work outside their assigned MOS...It is not their fault that perishable knowledge is wasting away because the Army will not create a Training room clerk position, that means EVERY company level unit is the Army has an SM working that vital role out of MOS. And there are thousands of other SM working out of MOS every day from 12 month tasking as a life guard to being tasked to be the CDR driver.
2: Flash to bang.... The test was often years behind current equipment fielded.. You had questions on equipment you had never seen, was outdated and replaced before you cam in the Army..yet its still in the inventory, still in the MOS skill AR, so you still have to know it.
3: Not all units are equipped the same, that can be physical equipment or software / hardware systems .. So the 11B in one unit has issued equipment and is an expert on it, but the MOS Q test has questions pertaining to equipment he has never seen. The Automated Supply specialist is a wiz on the software / Hardware system in place in his unit, he can order, track, receive, verify, adjust and supply any line item authorized to he CDR, But the MOS Q test questions for his MOS are based on a newer (or older, or alternate) system he has never seen nor used.
4: The test are standardized for "fairness and consistency" The shear size if the Service means testing will be done over many months throughout the year working with deployments, training, block leave,ect. The test questions are fixed some many months in advance, so unit A in FT Mead gets the 63Y test in January and 63Y SM in unit B in Alaska get the same test in July..... the test was comprised and known after the first few units have taken it, by the time the last units are taking that same test, its hardly "fair" as those so inclined have the test questions in whole to study from, or at least know the "trick" questions they have to study up on knowing its not current info for their current unit, but still tested.
5: The test have to be written to the lowest common denominator, which changes as the enlistment standards go up or down across the year(s) Create the test to challenge and give fair evaluation to the current education standard and you may be unfairly handicapping a demographic from an earlier standard. Write the test to the lowest common denominator and your not getting a good evaluation of those that were required to be educated and experienced to a higher standard upon entrance.
There are other issues like staffing and manpower .... You either have to create thousands of new jobs then fill them with SM as an actual assignment (all out of MOS now, see point #1)
You create these jobs and task them as an additional duty, so now you have taken resources and manpower from a unit for most of the year to facilitate testing..Who is doing their job while they are tasked out? and of course see point 1 above as well.
You create these Jobs, make it a new MOS and then resource it with re class, reenlistments and new enlistments ..but of course now you have created yet another low density MOS that has limited career progression meaning no motivation to excel in the MOS as there is a hugely limited opportunities for promoted and serve in positions of higher responsibility. ...or they are forced reclass after say SSG and now fill a new MOS NCO role having no experience and limited training to perform at the highest levels in the new MOS....Oh ya and next year, they will be taking the MOS Q for their new MOS .......Experts in their rjob? not likely.
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DO THEY STILL HAVE YOU ONCE A YEAR TEST ON YOUR KNOWLEGE ON YOUR JOB AND ONCE UPON TIME WE HAD MOS TEST ON YOUR JOB AND IF YOU DIDNT PASS YOU WOULD NOT GET PROMOTED THAT WAS OUR BATTALION POLICY.
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I'm an old school guy who remembers the SQT (Skill Qualification Test). It tested you on your MOS specific items at the level you were trying for. But it also included and went hand in hand with the Common Task Testing (CTT). I believe that they should bring this back, it's simple every year you take the CTT - it's a test of common (every soldier should know it) test, then take the SQT for the current rank (skill level), if you pass both of these then you are eligible to take the SQT and the CTT for the next level skill. It's up the command to test correctly as many of tests involve hands on testing. These scores in addition to PT scores, weapons scores and vehicle licenses can be used to list individuals from highest to lowest.
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I believe that we can do a better job of incorporating MOS specific questions into the board process to ensure MOS proficiency. The board is also about seeing how an individual acts under pressure. Do you want an NCO that can't communicate with their Soldiers, but can test well. Probably not.
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SQT Once upon a time it was a big factor in Army promotions. But the Army seen fit to get rid of it. I always thought it was a big mistake.
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A written test does not measure leadership skills. The Navy and Airforce do not lead, that's why they test in MOS specific skills. Do we need to improve the promotion system? Yes! The CSM in my last Duty station conducted the promotion board based on scenarios and barely on memorized questions. The supervisor should test the individual's leadership before recommending for the board. However, subordinates are subjected to the ability of the supervisor to mentor and develop future leaders. A quiz proves nothing.
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Yes they need to go back to the skill test or MOS Q Test. You have dumbasses that spend all day in the arms room or the orderly room making E-5 while guy's in the motor pool who actually know their MOS get screwed. They need to bring back the SQT and get some real soldiers promoted not desk chair warriors who wouldn't know shit in the motor pool.
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