Posted on Dec 17, 2014
Would you support a standard uniform for all branches of service? Why or Why not?
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I support it %100. I liked the multi cam. and think it looks sharp. I think we could all just wear our own rank etc
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Yes, Combat uniformity with service dress being branch specific (Pre-9/11 Rules).
Just make sure that those involved with the "development/decision making" of the UCP/ABU patterns are allowed nowhere near the process. Multicam and MARPAT were ready/available before ACU/ABU were made, this insanity driven by folks who have no idea what their doing while bold-face lying about "effectiveness" in order to generate "individuality via jealousy", needs to stop (I'm looking at you Air Force for wishing you were cool enough to wear original Tiger Stripes, and you Army for wanting digi's so bad it didn't matter what color it was in). For example, it took me about 15min [with some mad photoshop skills I might add] a few years ago to perfectly digitize/pixelate the amazingly effective Multicam colorway at a full resolution (example attached) if simply being digital was so important.
Just make sure that those involved with the "development/decision making" of the UCP/ABU patterns are allowed nowhere near the process. Multicam and MARPAT were ready/available before ACU/ABU were made, this insanity driven by folks who have no idea what their doing while bold-face lying about "effectiveness" in order to generate "individuality via jealousy", needs to stop (I'm looking at you Air Force for wishing you were cool enough to wear original Tiger Stripes, and you Army for wanting digi's so bad it didn't matter what color it was in). For example, it took me about 15min [with some mad photoshop skills I might add] a few years ago to perfectly digitize/pixelate the amazingly effective Multicam colorway at a full resolution (example attached) if simply being digital was so important.
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Cpl Phil Hsueh
FYI, Multicam is actually a digital pattern, it's just not pixelated but being pixelated is not what makes a pattern digital. IIRC what makes a pattern is how it was developed, in the case of a digital pattern it was created with the aid of a computer, I don't recall the exact details but I think it had something to do with color and pattern analysis.
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MSgt (Join to see)
Right, Multicam has digital fades, and was designed via computer. The issue was the Army wanted an obviously pixelated pattern (ala Marines) more than they actually wanted an effective pattern. Then comes the Air Force whose only goal was to get to wear "tiger stripes" regardless of effectiveness.
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One team one fight! We all have pride in what we do and sometimes feel we do a better job than other branches. Bottom line were paid the same rate plus special duty based on different criteria. That's what sets us apart. Navy has the highest annual budget for uniforms (what are you up to? 6?) And your blue, you fall in the water who's gonna fuck in see you, jk. One uniform, save cost, maybe a sand/jungle/gassison diviation. Keep our own dress uniform for special occasions (mines never been worn in 4 years).
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We are all different, do different jobs and it's ok to have Branch Pride. Espirit De Corp amongst the different branches!
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SFC Michael Jackson, MBA
SFC Daniel Byrd
I understand the branch pride, and the desire for own identity, but with the budget cuts and every dollar being scrutinized, is it worth holding on to. Would compromise with keeping the dress uniform?
I understand the branch pride, and the desire for own identity, but with the budget cuts and every dollar being scrutinized, is it worth holding on to. Would compromise with keeping the dress uniform?
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I would support a common uniform. For one thing, it's cheaper than letting all the services try to research and develop a brand new pattern every few years. Less money spent there means more money for other stuff like required hardware/tools for those careers that need them. It also builds more national unity. Though we all joke about our sister services, we are all fighting for the same friends and families at home. It only makes sense 1 team, 1 fight!
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Uniforms for the your suroundings! I think that the working uniforms (I.E. camo) should reflect the members surroundings regardless of what branch they may be from in a combat zone, outside of that I feel that each branch has a sense of pride in their uniforms that we should not take away. The fact that we all have U.S. (branch, I.E. Navy, Marine, Army, Air Force, Coast Gaurd) unites us all you in the same but as we all know the different branches has their different ways about the, is it a head or a latrine or a bathroom, is it a wall or bulkhead, a hatch or door. Our traditions are very different as well. I say own the branch you are in and show off when you can but when it comes to combat we share the same blood so why not the same uniform.
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SFC Michael Jackson, MBA SFC I would agree with you on this one. I think it would save a ton of money in the long run. Just have a few alterations is all for each branch. That is my opinion on this topic.
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This is a hard one for me. I know that it would obviously be more cost effective for all branches to share one standard uniform. That being said, it would be more cost effective for the USPS, FedEx, and UPS to share uniforms. I'm probably a little bit old school, but I think it IS important for each service to "represent". If (in my humble opinion), we all look exactly the same, the lines of responsibility start to fade, in the eyes of the public. I also think loyalty plays a big part; each service member takes pride in the fact that they chose the particular service they are in.
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SFC (Join to see)
USPS, FedEx and UPS are three very separate entities. USPS a is tax and revenue funded government organization, while the latter two are corporations. Corporations don't share expenses and government agencies don't split the bill with corporations.
The military on the other hand is all umbrella'd under the DoD and serves in separate and joint assignments worldwide. Pride in the uniform should be achieved by the wearer's care and conduct, not by looking different... just for the sake of not looking like the other guys.
The military on the other hand is all umbrella'd under the DoD and serves in separate and joint assignments worldwide. Pride in the uniform should be achieved by the wearer's care and conduct, not by looking different... just for the sake of not looking like the other guys.
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We had it in the OG fatigues, for a couple of decades, followed by the
woodland camo fatigues for a decade or so. The everyone went off on their own
service camo fatigues. The OG was the best for blending in almost everywhere.
woodland camo fatigues for a decade or so. The everyone went off on their own
service camo fatigues. The OG was the best for blending in almost everywhere.
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No, if you can't tell you run a safety risk for one. It would also cause lots of confusion on installations with multiple branches of service members.
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SFC (Join to see)
Do educate me on what safety risks would occur by matching combat/utility uniforms among branches?
Confusion? I guess we weren't as confuse-able prior to 2005 when the ACUs came out and every branch decided to do their own patterns.
Confusion? I guess we weren't as confuse-able prior to 2005 when the ACUs came out and every branch decided to do their own patterns.
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Absolutely Not! Politics already has taken the Black beret from the Army Rangers without input from any one except staff personnel and Gen Shenseki of course. We have another General stating that the ACU's were a bad design but yet where was he when the approval process went through? I know he was in service. Let the troops decide on a uniform change and NOT the politician's! If I wanted to look like a Navy or Airforce troop I would have joined that branch!
MSG (RET) D
MSG (RET) D
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Absolutely not. Here is why:
Different situations call for different camouflage patterns and utility types to be used depending on geographical location, combat/non-combat situation, weather, etc.
A great example would be the U.S. Army's UCP on the ACU, which I do not wear, but I know many who think the UCP is a too much of a "limbo" pattern; efficient somewhere in situations between mountainous/tundra and urban areas. Multi-cam when used in the same situation may not be as effective and can even pose a threat to the soldiers considering visibility. But it's pattern, which is effective in grassland, forest, mountain, and even urban situations, cannot completely overrule the relevance of the UCP ACU. The Air Force basically is in the same boat since the ABU's pattern is similar to the UCP, and groundside/deployed units utilize the multi-cam utility.
The Navy's "N-dubs" work rather well on a ship, though there are many that agree that, in the case of a sailor going overboard, it might be hard to spot him/her when wearing a navy-blue uniform. I would even suggest the NWUs have a higher ratio of the silver/grey "pixels" to the dark-blue colors. Groundside sailors use multi-cam in many situations, whereas "greenside" sailors (Navy personnel attached to a Marine unit), use either woodland or desert MARPAT. Having different patterns proves to be effective, especially for the Navy, where having ship and shore rates requires the availability. If anything, the Navy should not even use the multi-cam and be given the Marine MARPAT, just without the Marine Corps emblem on the pocket and cover. It would not be hard for the Navy to do this since woodland/desert MARPAT "US NAVY" chest tapes and rank insignia already exist. The NWU should not be obsolete though, just altered. US Navy Seabees could keep their uniform (US Navy Type III) since it is similar to the woodland MARPAT, or trash. Whichever works...
The Marine's woodland MARPAT pattern has proven extremely effective in both jungle, mountainous/tundra, and night operations. Whereas the desert MARPAT has the same efficiency in the desert, snow, and some mountainous situations where wearing woodland exposes the Marines. Wearing multi-cam, although somewhat effective, simply does not work as well as woodland MARPAT when the situation calls for it. In situations like jungle warfare, the woodland pattern is excellent and blends superbly with the environment. The desert pattern as works in any clime and place a Marine may be sent.
Aside from all of this, a less significant point would be a mix of culture and tradition. And of course, as a Marine, that's what I'm all about. I simply cannot see Marines wearing multi-cam and having "pinning" ceremonies where a Marine Sergeant gets his first rocker with a hook-and-loop (Velcro) patch smacked onto his sternum. Also, the MARPAT uniforms are unique in the sense that they were the first digital camouflage within the US Military and distinctly display our emblem on the left breast pocket. There are a few other things that I feel would be odd for any service member of any branch to change over to a common uniform but are less relevant.
The multi-cam utility serves its purpose well for the Army and Air Force in the event that the UCP/ACU and ABU does not suffice. And the US Navy has NWU Type II and Type III for groundside situations. The Marines have done well with their woodland and desert MARPAT. These uniforms are designed by their respective branches FOR that branch, WITH the branch in mind every step of the way.
The Army and Air Force need multi-cam utilities. The Army still has a use for the ACU as well. The Navy should alter their NWUs, but I feel they are still relevant. Groundside units could easily utilize Type II and Type III uniforms or altered MARPAT since "greenside" Navy already does this. The Marines do not need another uniform, nor do they need to change theirs.
If there were to be an all-branch uniform, it would probably come in multiple color/pattern variants and the individual branches would stick to the color/pattern variant they use more or need; this simply defeats the purpose of developing a new uniform or using an existing one - which, when considering efficacy, does not exist.
Different situations call for different camouflage patterns and utility types to be used depending on geographical location, combat/non-combat situation, weather, etc.
A great example would be the U.S. Army's UCP on the ACU, which I do not wear, but I know many who think the UCP is a too much of a "limbo" pattern; efficient somewhere in situations between mountainous/tundra and urban areas. Multi-cam when used in the same situation may not be as effective and can even pose a threat to the soldiers considering visibility. But it's pattern, which is effective in grassland, forest, mountain, and even urban situations, cannot completely overrule the relevance of the UCP ACU. The Air Force basically is in the same boat since the ABU's pattern is similar to the UCP, and groundside/deployed units utilize the multi-cam utility.
The Navy's "N-dubs" work rather well on a ship, though there are many that agree that, in the case of a sailor going overboard, it might be hard to spot him/her when wearing a navy-blue uniform. I would even suggest the NWUs have a higher ratio of the silver/grey "pixels" to the dark-blue colors. Groundside sailors use multi-cam in many situations, whereas "greenside" sailors (Navy personnel attached to a Marine unit), use either woodland or desert MARPAT. Having different patterns proves to be effective, especially for the Navy, where having ship and shore rates requires the availability. If anything, the Navy should not even use the multi-cam and be given the Marine MARPAT, just without the Marine Corps emblem on the pocket and cover. It would not be hard for the Navy to do this since woodland/desert MARPAT "US NAVY" chest tapes and rank insignia already exist. The NWU should not be obsolete though, just altered. US Navy Seabees could keep their uniform (US Navy Type III) since it is similar to the woodland MARPAT, or trash. Whichever works...
The Marine's woodland MARPAT pattern has proven extremely effective in both jungle, mountainous/tundra, and night operations. Whereas the desert MARPAT has the same efficiency in the desert, snow, and some mountainous situations where wearing woodland exposes the Marines. Wearing multi-cam, although somewhat effective, simply does not work as well as woodland MARPAT when the situation calls for it. In situations like jungle warfare, the woodland pattern is excellent and blends superbly with the environment. The desert pattern as works in any clime and place a Marine may be sent.
Aside from all of this, a less significant point would be a mix of culture and tradition. And of course, as a Marine, that's what I'm all about. I simply cannot see Marines wearing multi-cam and having "pinning" ceremonies where a Marine Sergeant gets his first rocker with a hook-and-loop (Velcro) patch smacked onto his sternum. Also, the MARPAT uniforms are unique in the sense that they were the first digital camouflage within the US Military and distinctly display our emblem on the left breast pocket. There are a few other things that I feel would be odd for any service member of any branch to change over to a common uniform but are less relevant.
The multi-cam utility serves its purpose well for the Army and Air Force in the event that the UCP/ACU and ABU does not suffice. And the US Navy has NWU Type II and Type III for groundside situations. The Marines have done well with their woodland and desert MARPAT. These uniforms are designed by their respective branches FOR that branch, WITH the branch in mind every step of the way.
The Army and Air Force need multi-cam utilities. The Army still has a use for the ACU as well. The Navy should alter their NWUs, but I feel they are still relevant. Groundside units could easily utilize Type II and Type III uniforms or altered MARPAT since "greenside" Navy already does this. The Marines do not need another uniform, nor do they need to change theirs.
If there were to be an all-branch uniform, it would probably come in multiple color/pattern variants and the individual branches would stick to the color/pattern variant they use more or need; this simply defeats the purpose of developing a new uniform or using an existing one - which, when considering efficacy, does not exist.
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I think the Utility uniform for Training and Combat use would be a great idea. Maybe some deviation dependent on job specifics, but the same camo outline. When I was in the Army I always thought it was interesting that we wore our combat fatigues all the time. I always felt this was unprofessional. My father was in the marine corps when I was growing up and I remember him in the all brown dress uniform (cant remember what they are called). I always felt that something of that manner was more professional when not in training or on the battlefield. Unless your job was in the MotorPool climbing around on Tanks and trucks. But to answer the original question. Yes. For combat only....we should all be united in the same look and feel of the US.
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The OCP's are great. Loved them during my time in Bagram and Bastian. I do, however, miss BDU's and DCU's.
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This is the problem I see...
Person 1 yells, "Soldier..., Hey Soldier..., Soldier!!!!,"
Person 2 replies, "I am a God damn Sailor!!!!!!!"
Person 1 yells, "Soldier..., Hey Soldier..., Soldier!!!!,"
Person 2 replies, "I am a God damn Sailor!!!!!!!"
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SFC Michael Jackson, MBA
What's the Sailor upset about? Person 1 gave him an upgrade calling him a Soldier!
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PO1 (Join to see)
I would not call that an upgrade. This would also cause a lot of confusion upon the military.
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SFC (Join to see)
you think so PO1 (Join to see)? We did it for about 20 years, then suddenly decided we needed to look different. Wasn't that confusing, we learned to correct what needed correct and respond respectfully when we were corrected.
Then again, expecting service members to uphold some level of professional discipline may be beyond or capabilities in a modern military.
Then again, expecting service members to uphold some level of professional discipline may be beyond or capabilities in a modern military.
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I do not think that is a good idea. There are history in all the uniforms, whether it is Dress uniforms to BDU's.
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Yes, why waste the taxpayers dollars on multiple uniforms? Find one that works and go for it. In many ways the old BDU's were perfect. We all wore them, and they were effective. The only reason they were replaced was people saw them as old.
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I fully supports DoD policy of introducing one military uniform for all branches. Just like my favorite uniform "old school BDU's. It will save the country a lot of hard earned Tax Dollars. But be on guard for the trouble step child, the USMC always want to look different, and this situation need to be addressed prior to making this policy a reality. Guys you know what! let bring back the old BDU's lol.
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This is a hilarious question. Everybody would want standardization . . . . . with their uniform being the standard. Jarheads don't like all the patches the other services wear.
Honestly, what's wrong with different uniforms. People joined the different services for their respective reasons. Going "purple" doesn't appeal to everyone. So some of us enjoy the distinct differences of our respective uniforms.
Also, there's history behind the uniforms for each service.
If only referring to the "BDU" (That when I was in the Marines we called cammies), there are still service-specific differences.
Honestly, what's wrong with different uniforms. People joined the different services for their respective reasons. Going "purple" doesn't appeal to everyone. So some of us enjoy the distinct differences of our respective uniforms.
Also, there's history behind the uniforms for each service.
If only referring to the "BDU" (That when I was in the Marines we called cammies), there are still service-specific differences.
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GySgt (Join to see)
I'll add that the costs of maintaining uniforms pale in comparison to other areas of DoD spend that have gone way out of control.
Call me a dinosaur! LOL
Call me a dinosaur! LOL
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LTC Paul Labrador
What many people want is a standard basic top and trousers that would be common. How individual services dresses it up after that (ie patches, flags, etc) is their business. Again, it cuts down on costs (and these days, every cent counts) and simplifies logistics.
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