Posted on Sep 12, 2019
MG Dana Pittard and MSgt Wes Bryant discuss Hunting the Caliphate. Ask questions below about America's War on ISIS?
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MG Dana Pittard and MSgt Wes Bryant will be here on 9/19 at 2PM EST to discuss the book Hunting the Caliphate: America's War on ISIS and the Dawn of the Strike Cell. Please ask questions below about America's War on ISIS.
DANA J.H. PITTARD retired from the U.S. Army in 2015 at the rank of Major General after thirty-four years of active duty service. He was a highly decorated combat leader and commanded units at every echelon from platoon through division, including multiple combat tours in Iraq and the Middle East. In 2014, he was chosen to lead the initial U.S. response to halt the aggressive spread of ISIS in Iraq. Dana has earned a B.S. from West Point, a master’s degree from the School of Advanced Military Studies at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, and attended the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University as a Senior Fellow. He is currently a vice president with a manufacturing company in Indiana where he lives with his wife Lucille and their two sons. For more on Dana visit him at http://www.danajhpittard.com.
WES J. BRYANT retired from the U.S. Air Force in 2018 at the rank of Master Sergeant after twenty years of active duty service. Embedded with Special Forces teams under a Navy SEAL task force, Wes was the tactical lead for a contingent of special operations JTACs to first set foot in Iraq to stop ISIS. As the senior enlisted JTAC to establish the BIAP Strike Cell, Bryant coordinated and controlled the first airstrikes against ISIS in the Baghdad region. He later deployed as the senior Special Tactics JTAC for special operations task forces hunting ISIS in Syria and Afghanistan.
Wes earned a bachelor’s in Asian Studies from the University of Maryland University College. He’s been a lifelong writer, amateur philosopher, and an avid student of the martial arts. He currently pursues writing and editing and teaches Chinese Kung Fu and Tai Chi in his community in North Carolina, where he lives with his wife, Katie, and their two daughters. Wes’ work can be found at http://www.wesjbryant.com.
DANA J.H. PITTARD retired from the U.S. Army in 2015 at the rank of Major General after thirty-four years of active duty service. He was a highly decorated combat leader and commanded units at every echelon from platoon through division, including multiple combat tours in Iraq and the Middle East. In 2014, he was chosen to lead the initial U.S. response to halt the aggressive spread of ISIS in Iraq. Dana has earned a B.S. from West Point, a master’s degree from the School of Advanced Military Studies at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, and attended the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University as a Senior Fellow. He is currently a vice president with a manufacturing company in Indiana where he lives with his wife Lucille and their two sons. For more on Dana visit him at http://www.danajhpittard.com.
WES J. BRYANT retired from the U.S. Air Force in 2018 at the rank of Master Sergeant after twenty years of active duty service. Embedded with Special Forces teams under a Navy SEAL task force, Wes was the tactical lead for a contingent of special operations JTACs to first set foot in Iraq to stop ISIS. As the senior enlisted JTAC to establish the BIAP Strike Cell, Bryant coordinated and controlled the first airstrikes against ISIS in the Baghdad region. He later deployed as the senior Special Tactics JTAC for special operations task forces hunting ISIS in Syria and Afghanistan.
Wes earned a bachelor’s in Asian Studies from the University of Maryland University College. He’s been a lifelong writer, amateur philosopher, and an avid student of the martial arts. He currently pursues writing and editing and teaches Chinese Kung Fu and Tai Chi in his community in North Carolina, where he lives with his wife, Katie, and their two daughters. Wes’ work can be found at http://www.wesjbryant.com.
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Joint Tactical Air Control (JTAC) / Forward Air Controller Course
Reading
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
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It would seem that after some years of dawdling, a change in strategy enabled and resourced a decisive win against ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
Could you illuminate on why it is that we seem to be largely ignoring ISIS element in Libya, specifically in Benghazi, Al Bayda, and Al Qubah?
This area seems to be one that they are building up a base of support, threating European Allies and Egypt. We seem to be content to watch four factions fight over the carcass of Libya, while these characters lie in wait to spring their next operation.
Could you illuminate on why it is that we seem to be largely ignoring ISIS element in Libya, specifically in Benghazi, Al Bayda, and Al Qubah?
This area seems to be one that they are building up a base of support, threating European Allies and Egypt. We seem to be content to watch four factions fight over the carcass of Libya, while these characters lie in wait to spring their next operation.
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MG Dana Pittard
I agree with most of what has been said. As far as Libya, I was aware that we had national level assets devoted to ISIS in Libya. In 2015, I travelled to Egypt to discuss ISIS in Libya with the Egyptians and others.
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1SG (Join to see)
MG Dana Pittard - Any thoughts about what is going on there now?
(I get what national level assets means, and why that might not be internet-worthy).
(I get what national level assets means, and why that might not be internet-worthy).
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MG Dana Pittard
I no longer know the deep specifics of what is going on in Libya with ISIS today; but, it is something that was certainly predictable. ISIS will continued to go to failed states like Libya, Somalia, Syria, Afghanistan and other areas. ISIS must be defeated wherever they appear in the world.
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1SG (Join to see)
MG Dana Pittard - Frankly, I am surprised that Egypt is tolerating their presence there.
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Thanks for stopping by gentlemen. The book sounds interesting. My question is, as ISIS lose geographic territory and frontline fighters, what can be done to ferret out radicalized sleepers who migrate out from the area and/or can the radicalized be identified and deprogrammed; and who are the best to do that work?
MG Dana Pittard, I just wanted to say I fell under your command at Ft. Bliss about 10ish years ago and--insofar as someone like me can fairly judge--through the many division changes and growth of the post, you ran 1st AD as well I could imagine.
Lastly, we met briefly at a training FOB at Bliss in 2012. In fact, if I were ever memorable to you, it would only be because I probably broke the sound barrier whipping up what was the fastest salute I've EVER done, once I recognized it was you and your high-ranking entourage walking directly towards me, while my fellow Joes chickened out and took off in the other direction! LOL!
MG Dana Pittard, I just wanted to say I fell under your command at Ft. Bliss about 10ish years ago and--insofar as someone like me can fairly judge--through the many division changes and growth of the post, you ran 1st AD as well I could imagine.
Lastly, we met briefly at a training FOB at Bliss in 2012. In fact, if I were ever memorable to you, it would only be because I probably broke the sound barrier whipping up what was the fastest salute I've EVER done, once I recognized it was you and your high-ranking entourage walking directly towards me, while my fellow Joes chickened out and took off in the other direction! LOL!
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MSgt Wes Bryant
Awesome question Dave. I think this is a great one for Dana to answer... he'll be up on this tomorrow.
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MG Dana Pittard
Hi SGT Tracy,
Thank you for your question. There is still a huge concern over radicalized sleeper individuals or sleeper cells in the region and around the world. ISIS was very adept in reaching a global audience on social media. At one point in 2014/2015 they were putting out 90,000 tweets a day!
The best defense against ISIS sleepers in America and in the West (Europe) is an informed and aware population that can report any suspicious behavior to the local authorities and police. Within the region, we must depend on local tribes, moderate Muslim clerics and ordinary people in towns and cities to detect any ISIS sympathizers. Moderate Muslim clerics will also help to "de-program" and de-legitimize the ISIS religious "doctrine."
For those ISIS sympathizers that migrate to other countries and are able to get through security and immigration screening, we will need help from local Muslim communities to contact their local Muslim clerics or local authorities of suspicious activities. This one is tenuous at best; some Muslim communities may be afraid to go to authorities.
The intelligence services and inter-agencies of the U.S. and our allies (especially the intel services of Muslim countries) will be key to monitoring suspected ISIS fighters and sympathizers.
Thank you for your service to our nation. It certainly was an honor to serve with you in 1AD and Fort Bliss!
Sincerely,
Dana Pittard
Thank you for your question. There is still a huge concern over radicalized sleeper individuals or sleeper cells in the region and around the world. ISIS was very adept in reaching a global audience on social media. At one point in 2014/2015 they were putting out 90,000 tweets a day!
The best defense against ISIS sleepers in America and in the West (Europe) is an informed and aware population that can report any suspicious behavior to the local authorities and police. Within the region, we must depend on local tribes, moderate Muslim clerics and ordinary people in towns and cities to detect any ISIS sympathizers. Moderate Muslim clerics will also help to "de-program" and de-legitimize the ISIS religious "doctrine."
For those ISIS sympathizers that migrate to other countries and are able to get through security and immigration screening, we will need help from local Muslim communities to contact their local Muslim clerics or local authorities of suspicious activities. This one is tenuous at best; some Muslim communities may be afraid to go to authorities.
The intelligence services and inter-agencies of the U.S. and our allies (especially the intel services of Muslim countries) will be key to monitoring suspected ISIS fighters and sympathizers.
Thank you for your service to our nation. It certainly was an honor to serve with you in 1AD and Fort Bliss!
Sincerely,
Dana Pittard
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SGT Dave Tracy
MG Dana Pittard - Thanks for the reply. If you have time for a follow-on question; are regional partners, moderate clerics, etc. willing to come on board with such de-programming, and if so, what--if anything--those of us in the west can do to support such efforts without usurping their role in de-programming?
By that last part, I mean as "outsiders" I don't think we would be viewed as legitimate change agents in the eyes of not just these local moderates, but by members/sympathizers of ISIS. That would greatly limit successful adoption of de-programming I think.
Thanks!
By that last part, I mean as "outsiders" I don't think we would be viewed as legitimate change agents in the eyes of not just these local moderates, but by members/sympathizers of ISIS. That would greatly limit successful adoption of de-programming I think.
Thanks!
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MG Dana Pittard
Dave,
I believe that many of our regional partners are willing to "de-program" former ISIS fighters and sympathizers through a combination of the use of clerics, tribal leaders, family, monetary incentives, and even threats of imprisonment. It is not easy problem that will be solved overnight. There is very little that the West can do except to put pressure (positive and negative) on regional governments to continue to de-radicalize former ISIS fighters and sympathizers.
I believe that many of our regional partners are willing to "de-program" former ISIS fighters and sympathizers through a combination of the use of clerics, tribal leaders, family, monetary incentives, and even threats of imprisonment. It is not easy problem that will be solved overnight. There is very little that the West can do except to put pressure (positive and negative) on regional governments to continue to de-radicalize former ISIS fighters and sympathizers.
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First, thank you gentlemen for your service and for taking the time to share your experience with us on RP. I have two questions - First for MG Pittard: In looking at the dynamics of the battle space what are your thoughts in regards to the CoC and the integration of big data and a more autonomous ability to engage combatants by NCO's? Mainly thinking of the speed to engagement/OP tempo.
For MSgt Bryant, What are your thoughts on the A-10 and the future of CAS and what would you prefer working with, drone or fast mover pilots in regards to JTAC?
For MSgt Bryant, What are your thoughts on the A-10 and the future of CAS and what would you prefer working with, drone or fast mover pilots in regards to JTAC?
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MSgt Wes Bryant
Hi David,
Love the question. The A-10 without a doubt has been the workhorse for JTACs. It is a platform we can always count on. That said, with this near-20-year war on terror now, our fast(er) movers have become very adept at CAS--specifically the F16 pilots on the Air Force side of the house, and F-18 drivers on the Navy/Marine side.
There are benefits to both. In a ground fight, if I'm on the ground myself, I will always take an A-10 roaring over me any day. However, when we're looking at other operations where we want stand off or reduced noise signature, other platforms may be better. Regarding drones--for a JTAC they are always supporting. If all we have is a drone, it's better than nothing, but when you're talking a troops-in-contact situation they are not as responsive as a fast mover, and they don't carry the payload. So when troops are on the ground, we will always have a mix of strike/fighters (or bombers) with drones. If we are tracking targets from afar, we will mostly utilize our drones because they are the best at sitting on something and watching it for long periods.
Regarding the future of CAS, we can't rely on our drone or our digital technology. It has been proven time and again that nothing can beat human-to-human communication in regards to strike coordination and warfighting in general. I think currently we have a good mix of technology that augments the human warfighter, but there are those elements in the DoD and the military technology industry trying to go full up droid in our warfighting, and that's where we will fail. At least I don't see us ready to go that route now--maybe in a couple hundred years.
Love the question. The A-10 without a doubt has been the workhorse for JTACs. It is a platform we can always count on. That said, with this near-20-year war on terror now, our fast(er) movers have become very adept at CAS--specifically the F16 pilots on the Air Force side of the house, and F-18 drivers on the Navy/Marine side.
There are benefits to both. In a ground fight, if I'm on the ground myself, I will always take an A-10 roaring over me any day. However, when we're looking at other operations where we want stand off or reduced noise signature, other platforms may be better. Regarding drones--for a JTAC they are always supporting. If all we have is a drone, it's better than nothing, but when you're talking a troops-in-contact situation they are not as responsive as a fast mover, and they don't carry the payload. So when troops are on the ground, we will always have a mix of strike/fighters (or bombers) with drones. If we are tracking targets from afar, we will mostly utilize our drones because they are the best at sitting on something and watching it for long periods.
Regarding the future of CAS, we can't rely on our drone or our digital technology. It has been proven time and again that nothing can beat human-to-human communication in regards to strike coordination and warfighting in general. I think currently we have a good mix of technology that augments the human warfighter, but there are those elements in the DoD and the military technology industry trying to go full up droid in our warfighting, and that's where we will fail. At least I don't see us ready to go that route now--maybe in a couple hundred years.
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SPC David S.
Great insight into all the dynamics at play - different plays for every down and distance. I agree on the dangers in integrating to much tech into the battle space - I feel some of this demand is created by the military industry. While some of it is "cool" I feel we overthink and way over engineer platforms to deliver a kill bandit result. The low tech asymmetric fighting I feel is a good reminder to keep it simple.
FYI I picked up the book on Amazon - looking forward to reading it.
FYI I picked up the book on Amazon - looking forward to reading it.
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MG Dana Pittard
Hi David,
I think that we are already seeing more and more data, information, and intel going to smaller units and individual Soldiers and leaders. Depending on the type of conflict we are fighting, we may see a lot more autonomy by small units led by NCOs and/or Officers.
Every service is slightly different in how much responsibility is given to our Non-Commissioned Officer Corps. The Air Force initially designated only commissioned officers as drone pilots, while the Army uses NCOs as drone pilots.
Thank you for your past service to our nation.
I think that we are already seeing more and more data, information, and intel going to smaller units and individual Soldiers and leaders. Depending on the type of conflict we are fighting, we may see a lot more autonomy by small units led by NCOs and/or Officers.
Every service is slightly different in how much responsibility is given to our Non-Commissioned Officer Corps. The Air Force initially designated only commissioned officers as drone pilots, while the Army uses NCOs as drone pilots.
Thank you for your past service to our nation.
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MSgt Wes Bryant
Yep, agreed David-- the day we stop training the basics with nothing but a compass, rifle, and a radio, is the day we will watch our ability degenerate. This especially when we discuss near-peer adversaries--who have the capability to render our technology all but useless.
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I knew I recognized his face! MG Pittard was my division commander when I was assigned to 1st Armored. He shook my hand as I was getting on the bird for my first deployment, I'll never forget that 30 second moment.
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MG Dana Pittard
SGT Williams,
Thank you for your service to our nation. I am happy that you came back safely from your first deployment a few years ago. I was truly honored to serve with you in the 1st Armored Division. Iron Soldiers!
Thank you for your service to our nation. I am happy that you came back safely from your first deployment a few years ago. I was truly honored to serve with you in the 1st Armored Division. Iron Soldiers!
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MSgt Wes Bryant & MG Dana Pittard, thanks for joining us. I’m already three chapters in and really enjoying the read about “ISIS Rising”. As you look back on writing this book from two unique backgrounds & military experiences, was there ever a moment (or series of moments) when you were surprised by the perspective of the other author?
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MSgt Wes Bryant
Hi Brandon,
Great question, and absolutely in my case. Even having worked under MG Pittard running the strike cell in Iraq, there was so much back then that I didn't fully know he was dealing with. At the time, we weren't friends, co-authors, or anything of the sort--he was the commander in Iraq and I was the special operations JTAC helping run his strike cell. I had my lane. So, as we wrote this together, bouncing experiences off one another back and forth--the foundation for our back-and-forth chapter flow--I was pretty blown away at some of the things he'd being doing and dealing with from the U.S. senior military leadership, the Iraqi military and political leadership, and the U.S. political leadership. And some of this is expressed, or at least inferred, in the book--where I'll express some frustration at one thing or another, and you'll watch Dana come in with an explanation or a different perspective on that situation that this frustrated senior NCO was pissed off about. :)
Great question, and absolutely in my case. Even having worked under MG Pittard running the strike cell in Iraq, there was so much back then that I didn't fully know he was dealing with. At the time, we weren't friends, co-authors, or anything of the sort--he was the commander in Iraq and I was the special operations JTAC helping run his strike cell. I had my lane. So, as we wrote this together, bouncing experiences off one another back and forth--the foundation for our back-and-forth chapter flow--I was pretty blown away at some of the things he'd being doing and dealing with from the U.S. senior military leadership, the Iraqi military and political leadership, and the U.S. political leadership. And some of this is expressed, or at least inferred, in the book--where I'll express some frustration at one thing or another, and you'll watch Dana come in with an explanation or a different perspective on that situation that this frustrated senior NCO was pissed off about. :)
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MG Dana Pittard
Hi Brandon,
I agree with Wes. We learned a lot about our different perspectives while writing the book. I didn't quite realize just how frustrated Wes and some of the other JTACs were with some of the more ambiguous situations we encountered. I hadn't realized that Wes had been "cursing my name" before we ever even met in the Strike Cell! :)
All kidding aside, I had great respect for Wes and the other Special Ops JTACs (Navy SEALs, Green Berets, etc.) in the Strike Cell and what they were able to help us accomplish as a team. I have gained an even greater respect for Wes as a person after getting to know him and his family through writing the book. Wes is the real deal!
I agree with Wes. We learned a lot about our different perspectives while writing the book. I didn't quite realize just how frustrated Wes and some of the other JTACs were with some of the more ambiguous situations we encountered. I hadn't realized that Wes had been "cursing my name" before we ever even met in the Strike Cell! :)
All kidding aside, I had great respect for Wes and the other Special Ops JTACs (Navy SEALs, Green Berets, etc.) in the Strike Cell and what they were able to help us accomplish as a team. I have gained an even greater respect for Wes as a person after getting to know him and his family through writing the book. Wes is the real deal!
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MSgt Wes Bryant
Well, MG Dana Pittard , that's not exactly something you tell a general when you first meet him!
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MG Dana Pittard
Thanks Mark. It really is a compelling story from two different perspectives on the initial fight and the development of the successful campaign against ISIS. I hope you enjoy the book!
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What was the hardest day you had during this whole experience hunting ISIS? What do you remember the most about it?
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MG Dana Pittard
Aaron,
Thank you for your question. I think the hardest day was probably on August 3rd, 2014 when we watched, via a live Predator drone feed, ISIS fighters brutally murder 80 Yazidi men and boys in the village of Qiniyeh near Sinjar (southwest of Mosul). It was frustrating not to have been able to do anything about it at that time. However, within days, we were then given the authority to conduct air strikes.
Thank you for your question. I think the hardest day was probably on August 3rd, 2014 when we watched, via a live Predator drone feed, ISIS fighters brutally murder 80 Yazidi men and boys in the village of Qiniyeh near Sinjar (southwest of Mosul). It was frustrating not to have been able to do anything about it at that time. However, within days, we were then given the authority to conduct air strikes.
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MSgt Wes Bryant
For me, I can't even name a hardest day honestly. But yes instances like the above come to mind. Other times were running the campaign in northwest Syria, when we had to often wait for the administration/Pentagon to approve operations that we had going. I detail a part in the book where we had a small force of Syrian fighters we'd trained holding a line against ISIS, they were outnumbered and down to one magazine each. We were waiting way too long for the approval from the Pentagon/administration to send in reinforcements and more ammo/weapons we had sitting waiting at the northern border. Those are the days that come to mind.
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Will the caliphate ever truly be destroyed? They are likened to the hydra, cut off one and another springs up.
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CPT Tommy Curtis
MSgt Wes Bryant We need to completely obliterate their digital as well as physical presence.
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MSgt Wes Bryant
Yep, as much as I'm a proponent of killing and breaking things, at some point you have to recognize when that is not going to solve it all.
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