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As leaders, we should automatically respect our subordinates at all times. There is a stark difference between leadership and dictatorship. As soon as the leaders in the military figure this out, they will notice a peak in the retention rate of their Soldiers.
I have communicated with over 300 Soldiers who are eligible to extend their enlistment contract within the past few months and was shocked to hear the responses from some of them. One Soldier mentioned, “I would remain in the military but cannot understand why I’m getting cursed out when asked to do something. I am a grown man!” I asked this same Soldier if he’d discuss with his leaders the disrespect he feels and he said that he had spoken with them about it. My final question to him was, “So what did they say?” He replied, “They said that I am a Soldier and if I can’t handle it, get out!”
As a leader myself, I apologized to this Soldier and informed him that some leaders are called leaders because of their position or title, not because of their leadership. I then annotated in the retention book that he was not going to extend his contract but instead, leave the military because of the disrespect from his leadership.
Must a Soldier be a Chaplain to get respected? Can a Soldier who informs his or her chain of command that the speaking of profanity is against their religion be provided the same respect that a chaplain receives? Should fellow Soldiers respect these Soldiers? To me, the answer is quite simple. We should.
I am one of these Soldiers. I am a non-paid minister at a local church. The Soldiers who are aware of this duty respect the fact I am a Soldier and a minister. I've expressed to others that I would like for them to be themselves while in my presence, as I would perceive unrealism if they would change their talk, speech, or attitude just because I was standing around in the vicinity. Some disagreed but others said okay and would use profanity as if I’m not around. It didn’t then and doesn’t bother me a bit. However, there might be Soldiers that are affected by vulgar and demeaning language and I believe this should be respected.
If smoking a cigarette around a non-smoker is a sign of disrespect, I believe using profanity around a non-profanity speaker falls within the same guidelines if the Soldier speaks up. Leaders must understand that profanity can be damning to a lot of people. The “F” word has been known to cause havoc, begin fights, and unfortunately result in someone being killed. To tell a Soldier to deal with the disrespect because you're a Soldier is unacceptable.
This is not a new Army. Respect began when the Army began.
I have communicated with over 300 Soldiers who are eligible to extend their enlistment contract within the past few months and was shocked to hear the responses from some of them. One Soldier mentioned, “I would remain in the military but cannot understand why I’m getting cursed out when asked to do something. I am a grown man!” I asked this same Soldier if he’d discuss with his leaders the disrespect he feels and he said that he had spoken with them about it. My final question to him was, “So what did they say?” He replied, “They said that I am a Soldier and if I can’t handle it, get out!”
As a leader myself, I apologized to this Soldier and informed him that some leaders are called leaders because of their position or title, not because of their leadership. I then annotated in the retention book that he was not going to extend his contract but instead, leave the military because of the disrespect from his leadership.
Must a Soldier be a Chaplain to get respected? Can a Soldier who informs his or her chain of command that the speaking of profanity is against their religion be provided the same respect that a chaplain receives? Should fellow Soldiers respect these Soldiers? To me, the answer is quite simple. We should.
I am one of these Soldiers. I am a non-paid minister at a local church. The Soldiers who are aware of this duty respect the fact I am a Soldier and a minister. I've expressed to others that I would like for them to be themselves while in my presence, as I would perceive unrealism if they would change their talk, speech, or attitude just because I was standing around in the vicinity. Some disagreed but others said okay and would use profanity as if I’m not around. It didn’t then and doesn’t bother me a bit. However, there might be Soldiers that are affected by vulgar and demeaning language and I believe this should be respected.
If smoking a cigarette around a non-smoker is a sign of disrespect, I believe using profanity around a non-profanity speaker falls within the same guidelines if the Soldier speaks up. Leaders must understand that profanity can be damning to a lot of people. The “F” word has been known to cause havoc, begin fights, and unfortunately result in someone being killed. To tell a Soldier to deal with the disrespect because you're a Soldier is unacceptable.
This is not a new Army. Respect began when the Army began.
Religion
Respect
Values
Command Post
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 97
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Sir, I agree with you 100 percent.The only problem is that we, as military members, tend to have potty mouths. If people dont approve of cussing or other small problems that are common in the work area, then it should be mentioned before you start working in that area to help alleviate any future problems that might be had between them and the rest of the work force. Respect goes a long way in the military and it is a two way street. We are professionals and we should respect each other's opinions, beliefs, and values.
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As an NCO, I tried my best to observe the feelings of what the soldiers were. I tried not to yell and curse, but, there are times when things are not getting done, where it is necessary to raise your voice, yelling was always the last resort, and cursing only worked if it was something that was responded to, to get the mission accomplished. A Soldier not accomplishing, or shucking and jiving through the mission, is disrespecting that leader leading the mission. And, therefore, does not deserve the respect reciprocated.
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Remove the word "Religion" from the title and replace with the word "RESPECT"
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During my short 10 years in the military, okay Air Force, I remember three leaders who did not use swear words or vulgarity. I also remember several others that cussed that were great leaders as well and others who cussed or didn't cuss that were worthless leaders. But concerning the three I mentioned, I would consider all three extremely effective leaders and during my service probably the most influential. One of these leaders was an E-5 Training Instructor I had in basic. He never swore and very rarely raised his voice but I can tell you he was the "scariest" TI there. The other two were NCO's in my career field (Law Enforcement). These two were the best professionals I have worked for, both in the military and in the corporate world. They were very effective in communicating with subordinates, peers and with the "public" they policed. They led by example in every facet and I use them as an example to follow in my career today. None of these men were religious from what I knew, the were just professional plain and simple. I'm not going to say that I didn't learn or respect leaders who did cuss, I've learned from every good leader and even from some of the bad ones. But as I have climbed the corporate ladder from entry level to company executive I have found that being professional and using appropriate language has been the most successful. I have cussed, cussed a lot, however it has been my personal experience that professionalism wins out over the long run.
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MSG (Join to see)
SSgt David Norcutt, I cannot disagree with anything you mentioned in your post. It's about respect. Throw out religion or replace the word with respect and we're on the same page. I learned how to curse/cuss when I joined the military so it's not about profanity as a leader. It's about the use of foul language when it's directed at a junior service-member to be demeaning and disrespectful. We should respect everyone regardless of their rank.
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SP5 Tom Carlson
I still followed my orders I was just saying other than orders I did not hear a thing....
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MSG,
Thanks for the post. IMO cursing is not a big issue and people need to soldier up. I have always had the image that the Army and Marines are "tough" due to movies like Full Metal Jacket and just the film industry in general. If the soldiers joining think the Army is the Boy scouts, they are dreaming. We are all adults and if you do not like something, speak up. Now if those curse words are being used to belittle a person, then that is when the Service Member should let the other person know what they are doing is inappropriate. I personally believe with the millions of Power Points videos, classes and just advertisement in general we are given annually, that if someone tells you what you are doing is inappropriate, that should scare the crap out of you. These days even if you are not found guilty for things like EO, IG, SHARP, it stays in your record and your career is over. We just need to use common sense and be mindful what we are saying. I would prefer a middle Army. By that I mean not as soft as we are becoming, but not as hard as the Army was in the 70s. I would say find the middle ground.
Thanks for the post. IMO cursing is not a big issue and people need to soldier up. I have always had the image that the Army and Marines are "tough" due to movies like Full Metal Jacket and just the film industry in general. If the soldiers joining think the Army is the Boy scouts, they are dreaming. We are all adults and if you do not like something, speak up. Now if those curse words are being used to belittle a person, then that is when the Service Member should let the other person know what they are doing is inappropriate. I personally believe with the millions of Power Points videos, classes and just advertisement in general we are given annually, that if someone tells you what you are doing is inappropriate, that should scare the crap out of you. These days even if you are not found guilty for things like EO, IG, SHARP, it stays in your record and your career is over. We just need to use common sense and be mindful what we are saying. I would prefer a middle Army. By that I mean not as soft as we are becoming, but not as hard as the Army was in the 70s. I would say find the middle ground.
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MSG (Join to see)
SGT Donald Waters, well said. Cursing isn't the issue. The Soldier in question was belittled with profanity and verbally abused. I wish I had left off Religion in the title because most are responding as if it is based on religion. I began the post incorrectly. It's all about respecting your fellow Soldier regardless of their rank. Once again, profanity isn't the issue but when it's directed at you to demean you especially in front of other Soldiers, it becomes a bullying issue. As you stated, with all of the training we received annually, all one has to do is file a complaint but some of the privates are too afraid to come forward. This is where true leaders should step up to the plate. I liken this abuse to police officers who stand by and watch another officer beat a suspect who has his hands behind his back only because the suspect had him run for a few miles before being caught. Step up leaders.
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MSG (Join to see)
SGT Waters, thanks for your reply. Profanity/cursing is not the issue. I observed a leader demean another Soldier because he could do so. Most if not all who disagree with me or not focusing on the issue at hand. Heck, profanity doesn't bother me one bit. But when I see a leader demean another Soldier, It gets under my skin!!
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"I'm grown, I'm grown." What does that mean? What do I care? In either case, I don't care and it infuriates me to here it said. In my opinion, the soldiers that throw that phrase out as a defense to their poor actions and attitudes tend to be the least mature of all soldiers. Often their inability to follow orders or be respectful is what gets them a reminder of who the boss is via use of colorful metaphors. Respect is not something a soldier gets just for joining the military. You don’t magically become a respectable person just by putting on a uniform it is something you earn though your actions and discipline. If a soldier walks into the military and expects to be respected by his or her leaders, then they are in for some reality. If they want to continue a career in the military they had better get used to earning respect, continuously. They may rise in rank, and get the respect due to them by way of their rank, but that should not be confused with professional, tactical or technical respect. This is a rough a demanding profession and if a Soldier cannot take some stern direction and a few big boy words then they need to reexamine their career choice. When I tell soldier to have a thick skin, I'm not just saying it to hear myself talk. Unfortunately, we are faced with young soldiers who have a poor, or completely lacking understanding of respect. They make the mistake of thinking they can place themselves on the same level as those who are senior to them in rank and service time because they feel like they are "grown." No 18, 19, 20 year old Private is "grown" no matter how mush he or she thinks otherwise and unfortunately some only respond to stern direction with some choice words thrown in so that they understand the gravity of situation.
All that being said, I do not believe that insulting or demeaning soldiers is acceptable either. Also, a Leader that only curses and yells to get their subordinates to follow orders is usually the sign of a poor leader. Unfortunately, subordinate soldiers have to deal with these types of leaders and must do so with respect, whether they like it or not. The structure of the military and the maintenance of good order and discipline does not allow for a clause that says you can disrespect a senior leader because they are poor at leading. Most good soldiers will perceiver, adapt and over come, or chalk it up to a lesson learned in how NOT to be when they are in a leadership position.
As far as curse words go...well, they come with the territory of the military. It is a fact that along with our demanding and harsh professions comes vernacular that can be just as demanding and harsh. None of this was an issue when I joined the military and I had and continue to have a great experience. Not until we allowed this pervasive civilian attitude of Political Correctness to poison our culture has it become an issue. If there are a few young soldiers who can’t deal with the demands of the military, whether it be verbiage or taking orders, or whatever, then I am all for them choosing a new line of work. There will always be someone else right behind them who enter’s the service, adapts, and contributes to take their place.
All that being said, I do not believe that insulting or demeaning soldiers is acceptable either. Also, a Leader that only curses and yells to get their subordinates to follow orders is usually the sign of a poor leader. Unfortunately, subordinate soldiers have to deal with these types of leaders and must do so with respect, whether they like it or not. The structure of the military and the maintenance of good order and discipline does not allow for a clause that says you can disrespect a senior leader because they are poor at leading. Most good soldiers will perceiver, adapt and over come, or chalk it up to a lesson learned in how NOT to be when they are in a leadership position.
As far as curse words go...well, they come with the territory of the military. It is a fact that along with our demanding and harsh professions comes vernacular that can be just as demanding and harsh. None of this was an issue when I joined the military and I had and continue to have a great experience. Not until we allowed this pervasive civilian attitude of Political Correctness to poison our culture has it become an issue. If there are a few young soldiers who can’t deal with the demands of the military, whether it be verbiage or taking orders, or whatever, then I am all for them choosing a new line of work. There will always be someone else right behind them who enter’s the service, adapts, and contributes to take their place.
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MSG (Join to see)
I know that I didn't provide all of the particulars and by not doing so, some will reply to the post accordingly. However, this Soldier had a right to remind the leader that he was a grown man. He did not disrespect the leader by doing so. The leader disrespected him and directed language towards him that was unbecoming of an NCO. LDRSHIP represents the Army values by which we ALL must abide by. The third letter is what this post is about. You and I will agree to disagree when it comes to respecting the next human being instead of earning respect. I didn;t say you become a respectable person after joining the military, I said that you don't have to earn respect. You earn trust. Respect is given once you recited the oath to join our military forces. Not sure? Respect defined as a verb or a noun is: "a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements." Ask civilians if they respect a military service member and the response would be a resounding "Yes." Why would they say yes to someone they do not even know? It is because they have a deep admiration for those of us who possess the quality to join our military forces. Army defines respect as "Treat people as they should be treated." Heck, I'll have to shortened this reply because I could go on and on especially when you mentioned that if a Soldier walks into the military and think he's going to be respected, he's in for some reality." Really? This is an unbelievable statement coming from a senior leader. I hope civilians don't see comments like this. We're a well respected organization. I cannot imagine any applicant walking into any organization (even our military) would believe that he will be disrespected so he better not hope for respect. Wow. Fort Meade beware.
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CSM (Join to see)
Sorry MSG, Respect, Trust, Loyalty, Duty..etc....must all be earned, period. Im not interested in how civilians view soldiers, because they have no idea what they are judging except the uniform we wear and the job they think all soldiers do. Its not that cut and dry and while I appreciate the thanks the give us, sometimes, their professional opinions are irrelevant. Admiration is a misguided metric to use for gauging respect and I think your ability to gauge soldiers is skewed. If you think every soldier is joining the military because they possess some great quality then you must be living under a rock. Your rosy view of the military and soldiers is exactly what emboldens them to get out of line and think they have the right to demand respect. Respect is earned through actions and behaviors and if a soldier does not exhibit them, they do not recieve respect.
I find the opinions and views you have to be very naive coming from a senior NCO. But, if you want to hand out trust and respect to every Joe you come across, you go ahead and do that. In the mean time, if you need me to give any corrective training to any soldiers you cant fix with respectful rainbows and hugs you can definitely send them my way. Ill be sure to fix em up or send em packing. Hows that wow ya? Fort Meade...Fort everywhere beware...Im everywhere!
I find the opinions and views you have to be very naive coming from a senior NCO. But, if you want to hand out trust and respect to every Joe you come across, you go ahead and do that. In the mean time, if you need me to give any corrective training to any soldiers you cant fix with respectful rainbows and hugs you can definitely send them my way. Ill be sure to fix em up or send em packing. Hows that wow ya? Fort Meade...Fort everywhere beware...Im everywhere!
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I suppose you haven't met some of the airborne chaplains I have known that can out cuss a sailor, in their private offices of course!
Don't be a hippocrate,
Either be a bible thumper or be a soldier, not both!!
Do us both a favor and get out and practice your hobby!
Don't be a hippocrate,
Either be a bible thumper or be a soldier, not both!!
Do us both a favor and get out and practice your hobby!
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SFC Lester C.
I worked for plenty of CSM, and as a SFC I had 3 MSG that worked for me directly because the CSM didn't trust them to lead. Plus I had a bible thumper like you in charge of me and was a blatant hypocrate, do as I say not as I do. So I know plenty.
As for SGT York, I'm not sure how you would ask a dead person about our current culture!??
As for SGT York, I'm not sure how you would ask a dead person about our current culture!??
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SFC (Join to see)
SFC Carrejo, You can be a religious person, a bible thumper if you will, and a Soldier. As long as you remember that your religious views are yours and not any anyone else's. I have deployed with Atheists, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, and Muslims and while there were times that we busted each others chops, it was not done out malice, bigotry or hatred. There was one time when an overly religious Soldier told another that "our lord and savior,Jesus said" at which point the NCO checked that person by reminding them that they were not of the same religion. That ended it right there. As a senior NCO our job is to make sure our troops can attend their religious services, mission permitting; proselytizing is not something that can be condoned. Open discussions where people can discuss/debate a religious topic is fine, this is how we can learn about other religions, proselytizing is not.
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