Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
250K
6.15K
2.36K
646
646
0
I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
3
3
0
It seemed strange to me that, having enlisted and already gone through boot, I had to register for the draft when I turned 18, though I was already in the Corps. What, were they going to pay me twice? Come get me from my duty station to send me through boot again?
(3)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Wow, I'm amazed there are so many who received draft notices even though they were already in the service.
(1)
(0)
3
3
0
Yes! The draft was created for a purpose and to violate and dodge it was breaking the law. Why would we say it’s ok? I feel those who dodged it we’re cowards and should have been punished! I know the big names and still feel they we’re cowards.
(3)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your thoughts on this matter. Some may consider the draft as a detraction of liberty. Question. Until 1865, slavery was Federally legal in the US. Would you hold the same position, that it's the law, and those who tried to escape slavery, and all those who helped them deserved to be punished? Again, thank you for your thoughtful comments.
(1)
(0)
3
3
0
I never signed up for selective service because I considered that "the draft" and don't think forcing people into the military was a good idea. Of course they made it so life would force you to join, same difference. Anyway , I joined the army a couple years later 1985 and 4 years after that at ETS and last admin clearing station, the "Army" would not let me out of the "Army" unless I signed up for the Selective Service! I refused, besides I was going into the NGAR for 4 years more anyway. There I was in uniform in that PERSCOM office refusing to sign up for S.S. Poor little PAK clerk (and cute) didn't know what to do, neither did multiple ranks of clerks. It took a GS-15(retired 0-6 I heard)explaining to me I gotta sign up to get out. LOL Clearing was always fun :)
So with my own situation i am not to judge,. As well ,we have been in many questionable 'wars", Vietnam was one, a bad one. We did win the Cold War in the end though and it took 1000 guys a year in the last years of 1980's to do that. Strange the Korean War is still around.People don't think about it now but we killed a lot of Chinese and we still got a Force there, and China is still there too
But I got one thing to say about Selective Service and the Draft and the state of it today. Why haven't women been put into the Selective Service? Many have pushed for "equal rights"and that needs to be one given the hypocrisy of the drive for women in combat arms and not having to. Until then, it is men who are discriminated against.. Selective service AND women's equal rights and women in combat , were ,and are, all selective jokes in this PC society of today. Yes I Go there , or no women in the combats arms.. yea cans of worms And yea, any MAN who wants to dodge the draft should be able to, they let women do it now. IMHO.
Past is gone/feelings won't change it, but what about now? and tomorrow?
So with my own situation i am not to judge,. As well ,we have been in many questionable 'wars", Vietnam was one, a bad one. We did win the Cold War in the end though and it took 1000 guys a year in the last years of 1980's to do that. Strange the Korean War is still around.People don't think about it now but we killed a lot of Chinese and we still got a Force there, and China is still there too
But I got one thing to say about Selective Service and the Draft and the state of it today. Why haven't women been put into the Selective Service? Many have pushed for "equal rights"and that needs to be one given the hypocrisy of the drive for women in combat arms and not having to. Until then, it is men who are discriminated against.. Selective service AND women's equal rights and women in combat , were ,and are, all selective jokes in this PC society of today. Yes I Go there , or no women in the combats arms.. yea cans of worms And yea, any MAN who wants to dodge the draft should be able to, they let women do it now. IMHO.
Past is gone/feelings won't change it, but what about now? and tomorrow?
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
We should only be upset if the "Draft-dodging arseholes" are the ones teaching the next generation to disrespect the Constitution, the laws of this nation, and that only their beliefs are correct; no matter how flawed they might be.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
It's over. Move on. Those that ran hAve to look at themselves in the mirror. Besides, it was politicians that sold us out. Should be rule #1, never let politicians looking for popularit clean up after a war.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
People are allowed to make mistakes, especially early on in life. So if a young man avoided going to war either through educational deferments or exaggerated medical ailments, I can excuse that as immaturity, enabled by corrupt systems and fueled by a kind of wealth few of us will ever know.
However, if you avoided doing your duty as a citizen of this country, then you should at least have the decency to keep your criticisms of those who have to yourself.
However, if you avoided doing your duty as a citizen of this country, then you should at least have the decency to keep your criticisms of those who have to yourself.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
I was drafted did my time in Marines then reenlisted.I did see folks that should NOT of been drafted very low I Q. I was not a happy camper when Carter forgave all the guys who ran to Canada who got free education up to PhD. Many of them came back to USA and became College professors.I was enrolled in college and these professors made life hell for returning Vietnam veterans .
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
By choosing the equate the draft and servitude/slavery is clever, but I believe a bit disingenuous. I know that neither you nor I are old enough to have been drafted in WWII, although I received my draft notice in 1966 during the Vietnam war/conflict. President Clinton chose to join ROTC to defer his selective service (draft) status. When it came time to be commissioned, he became a 'draft-dodger' of the first order. He knew it when he penned his letter to his ROTC commander. President Trump, as far as I can determine, didn't dodge the draft, he utilized the deferments available to him legally.
As to your assertion that "If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers." Well, I can assure you that there were not enough volunteers to answer the nation's call to arms in many, but not all of our wars, which is why the draft is initiated. It was used in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and the last was during the Vietnam War. Equating black slaves fleeing to Canada with draft-dodgers fleeing to Canada is really stretching past the limits of reason. You are entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else, but not to your own set of facts.
As to your assertion that "If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers." Well, I can assure you that there were not enough volunteers to answer the nation's call to arms in many, but not all of our wars, which is why the draft is initiated. It was used in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and the last was during the Vietnam War. Equating black slaves fleeing to Canada with draft-dodgers fleeing to Canada is really stretching past the limits of reason. You are entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else, but not to your own set of facts.
(3)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your response, and comments Sir.
Respectfully, I don't suggest to claim my own facts. In fact, I listed several definitions from Webster's dictionary. Those weren't my definitions. Slavery, and particularly Servitude both fall in line with the draft. Just because it's the government doing the enslaving, and forcing the servitude does not add a superior level of morality to these words, or change their definitions.
It is true that we did not have the number of volunteers necessary for many of our wars. Perhaps, some of them should have been rethought, or perhaps fought in a less wasteful manner regarding our treasure, and blood.
I would also stand by my statement regarding having enough volunteers should we be invaded. Pointing out a bunch of foreign conflicts in which we weren't invaded does not disprove the point. Even during our war between the States, conscription didn't occur because of an invasion. In fact, the war began over a continued Union occupation of forts located in a foreign State. Additionally, the first battles of the war took place in the south, so, again, the US wasn't invaded, the Union was doing the invading.
As a Freedom loving American I take no issue with a person fleeing servitude, or slavery. Not with those who fled the South, nor those in the North, who broke the law of the US to help them escape to Canada. Likewise, not those who fled the servitude of the draft.
I would reiterate, if our government wishes to engage in foreign wars, it should be incumbent upon them to impress upon the populous, the importance of such an operation, and to use commensurate salaries, and benefits to entice the number of volunteers required. A draft does nothing more than allow politicians to engage in warfare with little regard to the treasures, and blood of the people, and allows them to do so on the cheap. Unlike draftees, volunteer forces are limited, and are less likely to be wasted on operations with questionable outcomes.
Should our homeland be invaded, I again suggest we'll have more volunteers than we can handle.
Respectful regards.
Respectfully, I don't suggest to claim my own facts. In fact, I listed several definitions from Webster's dictionary. Those weren't my definitions. Slavery, and particularly Servitude both fall in line with the draft. Just because it's the government doing the enslaving, and forcing the servitude does not add a superior level of morality to these words, or change their definitions.
It is true that we did not have the number of volunteers necessary for many of our wars. Perhaps, some of them should have been rethought, or perhaps fought in a less wasteful manner regarding our treasure, and blood.
I would also stand by my statement regarding having enough volunteers should we be invaded. Pointing out a bunch of foreign conflicts in which we weren't invaded does not disprove the point. Even during our war between the States, conscription didn't occur because of an invasion. In fact, the war began over a continued Union occupation of forts located in a foreign State. Additionally, the first battles of the war took place in the south, so, again, the US wasn't invaded, the Union was doing the invading.
As a Freedom loving American I take no issue with a person fleeing servitude, or slavery. Not with those who fled the South, nor those in the North, who broke the law of the US to help them escape to Canada. Likewise, not those who fled the servitude of the draft.
I would reiterate, if our government wishes to engage in foreign wars, it should be incumbent upon them to impress upon the populous, the importance of such an operation, and to use commensurate salaries, and benefits to entice the number of volunteers required. A draft does nothing more than allow politicians to engage in warfare with little regard to the treasures, and blood of the people, and allows them to do so on the cheap. Unlike draftees, volunteer forces are limited, and are less likely to be wasted on operations with questionable outcomes.
Should our homeland be invaded, I again suggest we'll have more volunteers than we can handle.
Respectful regards.
(1)
(0)
3
3
0
As a 24 year veteran and father of a 22 year veteran I hold no ill will towards draft dodgers.
When my youngest son had to register for the draft he asked me if I would be terribly disappointed if here were called up and fled to Canada instead. My answer surprised him. I said, "No, would it disappoint you if I paid for your air fare?" I told him that just because we served doesn't mean we alway agreed with our government.
When my youngest son had to register for the draft he asked me if I would be terribly disappointed if here were called up and fled to Canada instead. My answer surprised him. I said, "No, would it disappoint you if I paid for your air fare?" I told him that just because we served doesn't mean we alway agreed with our government.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
President Trump used the rules to go to college instead of war. I see nothing wrong with that. I see nothing wrong with him using rules to pay less taxes by using using tax breaks or loopholes to reduce taxes. It is not illegal to do so. If you don't want to fight in a war, why would I want you there when I can't depend on you to fight beside me ? To cover me ? Watch my back ? I think you (the author of the article) is right on every level here.
(3)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google