Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
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I am not going to write a long soliloquy all I will say is that everyone who could pass the physical should have been drafted. Those traitors who ran from the draft to Canada and other countries should have been tried upon their return for treason and put in jail for at least ten years. Jimmy Carter pardoned them. I have no use for him or them. I fought for this country, because it is my country! Anyone who was a coward and did not join or get drafted does not belong in this country. That includes Jimmy Carter and the sorry pukes he gave amnesty to.
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I'm not upset at those who dodged the draft, but I respect those who served far more than draft-dodgers. I didn't have to serve, but I did, and I am proud to call myself a Veteran.
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I don't really have much of an issue with people who managed to avoid the draft by legitimate means. When rules are put in place, exceptions are provided in those rules for a reason, and there's nothing wrong with using those exceptions if you qualify for them. What I do have a problem with are people who lie or fake disabilities to get out of going, and people who avoid the draft themselves and later act like warhawks, eager to send other people to do the jobs they refused to do.
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If you want to live your life being sour and bitter, yes, Be upset at those who dodged the draft.
I grew up in a community of draft dodgers. But I volunteered in 1988. I disagree with their choice and I think they missed out on the opportunities I continue to enjoy long after I left in 1991. But as only 10% of those registered for selected service were actually activated, I don't see it a big deal. Plus it was almost 50 years ago. I choose to live my life going forward and I am proud of what I did to serve my country.
I grew up in a community of draft dodgers. But I volunteered in 1988. I disagree with their choice and I think they missed out on the opportunities I continue to enjoy long after I left in 1991. But as only 10% of those registered for selected service were actually activated, I don't see it a big deal. Plus it was almost 50 years ago. I choose to live my life going forward and I am proud of what I did to serve my country.
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My only issue is when those that did not server claim to speak for veterans. If you did not serve whether you dodged the draft or not, you cannot understand what we went through. If you did not serve you cannot speak for veterans. You should give us platforms to speak about what we went through and what our needs are but you can't speak for us. I am not bringing up particular names because I don't want this to devolve into a political argument.
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SSgt Richard Kensinger
In my clinical experience, many in the local VAC, especially psychiatrists, have no military experience let alone combat experience. They have no clue about the military and combat culture. So many fail to show for their scheduled appointments.
Rich
Rich
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That may be, but the key in your discussion appears in the end. "I want people fighting next to me who volunteered". I was drafted and served. I found that the difference between the "US" vs the "RA" was not evident once you were in, other than not thinking much about reupping. Furthermore, if there was a draft now, we would probably not be in so many wars nor for so long if all members of society were paying the price rather than a select few who volunteer. And for a person who "dodged the draft", it really boils down to how they did it: legally, without lying", or dishonorably/illegally/lying. And that latter clearly applies to our President.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments, and for sharing your experience. I would argue though, that it really boils down to whether or not we should let our politicians rob us of our freedoms to engage in frivolous or political wars. Mandating "service", makes it service in name only, and servitude in practice and in principle. As I stated in the article, I don't blame anybody for fleeing servitude, or slavery.
Respectful regards.
Respectful regards.
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SPC Rostyslaw Caryk
Although I understand your position, I still can't view "service" as servitude, or slavery", even though it is , virtually by definition, exactly that. I strongly believe that a minimum 2 year "national service", either military or non-military, after high school would be very beneficial for many (most?) yound folks. Few of those are really ready for college straight out oh HS. And most importantly, a renewal of the draft could be a method of making most politicians very hesitant about allowing very questionable wars to occur and/or continue. But good luck getting that to pass nowadays. Just to be clear, I also do not blame dissenters who fled the country to avoid the war, or those who legally were able to avoid that service. Given that, I do not include those who lied or cheated to avoid service.
Thanks for bringing up this topic for discussion.
Thanks for bringing up this topic for discussion.
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I agree 100%. I am a Vietnam vet. I wasn't drafted I enlisted prior getting a draft card. I enlisted with some friends and felt it most likely we would called up so why not see if we could get ahead of the game. We had our physicals with some draftees and other volunteers. The physicals were very thorough. Some my friends didn't make it. Quite a few folks were rejected. I never like the term draft dodger because I remember the look on some of the guys rejected. It's like the govt took their manhood away
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Some of the best soldiers in my time were National Guard. I volunteered because I did not want to be drafted after being asked to leave college. Some of my friends went to Canada and a few are still there. You have a sense of obligation to almost everything in life and mine was paying back a debt that someone had covered for me years before and those who are doing the same today. Blame is a waste of energy and I can judge myself and have no right to judge others. I lived with my choice and perhaps they lived with theirs.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your consideration, thoughts, and comments on this issue. Well articulated.
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Can't remember if I already weighed in on this, so forgive my being redundant. I was invited to serve by Pres. Nixon pre-lottery, when the draft was "y'all come." Wholly different mindset then. Whether or not you wanted to go didn't enter into it. Your dad, brothers, uncles etc all went before, so did you. Regarding those who refused, that's on them. If they don't bring it up, neither will I. It's been 50+ years. I, for one, am not going to generate an ulcer worrying about it. I do find it interesting that many who excoriate Pres. Trump for his actions gladly pulled the lever for Pres. Clinton, twice.
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While the original opinions of this conversation are well-stated, I must disagree with a basic premise: The Draft is not Slavery, it is an Obligation of Citizenship. An obligation can be postponed or deferred, but it is still there - if it is REALLY needed (Example: World War, or absolute necessity for the Nation's survival) it can, and should be, "called in".
The Ancient Greeks had a system (varying slightly by City-State) that essentially said, "If you don't defend the Nation, you are not a Citizen - you are only a resident". Residents enjoyed the protections and financial benefits from living within the City-State, but they did not have the right of representation in the Government.
While our Republic has differences from the ancient Republics of 2,000 to 3,000 years ago, it was founded upon many of the same basic principles. While we grant citizenship prior to enforcing the requirement to defend the nation, the obligation still exists - if it is ever called upon.
If someone obtains a legal deferment from serving in the military - so be it. I have an uncle who had a Marquette Law Degree, and was drafted into WWII as a private (he was told that he was "overqualified" to be a commissioned officer.) He survived the War, but I feel that it would have been a shame for someone with that much education and potential be have been blown away as cannon fodder.
People who run away from the Draft have no honor. People who intentionally create a lot of dependents to protect themselves from the draft are of the same cloth. But those people who have legitimate deferments for education or critical jobs are not dishonorable - they will just never be a member of the great fraternity of honorable, selfless individuals who went through the crucible to be forged into a warrior/team member who was willing to sacrifice 3 years or 4 years of his/her life - or life, altogether - for the security of this nation.
The Ancient Greeks had a system (varying slightly by City-State) that essentially said, "If you don't defend the Nation, you are not a Citizen - you are only a resident". Residents enjoyed the protections and financial benefits from living within the City-State, but they did not have the right of representation in the Government.
While our Republic has differences from the ancient Republics of 2,000 to 3,000 years ago, it was founded upon many of the same basic principles. While we grant citizenship prior to enforcing the requirement to defend the nation, the obligation still exists - if it is ever called upon.
If someone obtains a legal deferment from serving in the military - so be it. I have an uncle who had a Marquette Law Degree, and was drafted into WWII as a private (he was told that he was "overqualified" to be a commissioned officer.) He survived the War, but I feel that it would have been a shame for someone with that much education and potential be have been blown away as cannon fodder.
People who run away from the Draft have no honor. People who intentionally create a lot of dependents to protect themselves from the draft are of the same cloth. But those people who have legitimate deferments for education or critical jobs are not dishonorable - they will just never be a member of the great fraternity of honorable, selfless individuals who went through the crucible to be forged into a warrior/team member who was willing to sacrifice 3 years or 4 years of his/her life - or life, altogether - for the security of this nation.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I wonder though, where is the obligation to serve unwillingly, at the whim of politicians, written into our founding. If the wise men who framed our government intended such an obligation, why wasn't such an obligation of service written into our constitution? I understand your feelings, and thoughts regarding your father. I suspect many who were forced to "serve" felt the same way.
Our armed forces should always remain voluntary. I find it hard to fathom how being forced to serve, against ones will could be construed as anything other that servitude (at best), or slavery (at worst).
If we wish to give the Federal government to force the general public into servitude, why not give it sick a power by placing that power, next to the other "enumerated" powers actually given the Federal government, by the constitution.
Having served 22 years in the armed forces, voluntarily, I agree with your comments about fraternity, and selfless service. I just don't think people should be forced to do so.
Respectful Regards
Our armed forces should always remain voluntary. I find it hard to fathom how being forced to serve, against ones will could be construed as anything other that servitude (at best), or slavery (at worst).
If we wish to give the Federal government to force the general public into servitude, why not give it sick a power by placing that power, next to the other "enumerated" powers actually given the Federal government, by the constitution.
Having served 22 years in the armed forces, voluntarily, I agree with your comments about fraternity, and selfless service. I just don't think people should be forced to do so.
Respectful Regards
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