Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
When I turned 18 I had to register for the draft and was called up November 1953. Served my 2 years honorable. Joined the Air National Guard until 1958 when I went active duty in Naval Aviation until I finished my tour and honorably discharged in 1967. My point here is my military training helped me to “grow up” and go to college and become a responsible husband and father. I recommend military service for everyone.
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PO2 Albert Milburn
My military experience also allowed me to go to college under the GI bill where I finished my 4 years with a BS degree in Criminal Justice. I eventually became a school teacher after many jobs. I retired at age 81 in December 2016.
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So you think it's a type of servitude, thank God during ww11 no one felt it was servitude..we would all be speaking German. I myself enlisted in 1964 , MOS 111BP. 101st abn. We had draftees and they fought the good fight as good as the enlisted.
Our country needed us , we went .
Our fathers went when called in 1941 Normandy , North Africa, Guadalcanal, Germany, and so on .
They went and we went to Vietnam, let's not forget Korea . That said it is your duty to protect an defend the Country. And if you dont have the balls to do it stand aside and let the Warriors handle the problem.
" Those that stay abed on this day will hold their manhood cheap "
Shakespeare. " We few we happy few for those that shed their blood with me shall be my Brother ".
So my feeling is that this so called commander in chief, is not a leader ,hasn't the slightest clue of what it takes to command the services. His daddy got his punk ass out with some bullshit Heel spur story. 58000 + names on the Vietnam monument tells me that he could have answered the call ,even if he became a cook or a desk jockey anywhere in the world ,but no his ass wasn't about to go. Yet he reaps the benefits of some that had fought and protected his ass when he was a 19 year old mommy's boy.
There cant be any type of Mutual Respect for this guy. I think he is an intruder of the WH , and dose not deserve the title of commander in chief.
Mutual Respect to all Veterans.
John Sutor
Aco 2nd 502nd 101st Abn , Vietnam 1966.
Our country needed us , we went .
Our fathers went when called in 1941 Normandy , North Africa, Guadalcanal, Germany, and so on .
They went and we went to Vietnam, let's not forget Korea . That said it is your duty to protect an defend the Country. And if you dont have the balls to do it stand aside and let the Warriors handle the problem.
" Those that stay abed on this day will hold their manhood cheap "
Shakespeare. " We few we happy few for those that shed their blood with me shall be my Brother ".
So my feeling is that this so called commander in chief, is not a leader ,hasn't the slightest clue of what it takes to command the services. His daddy got his punk ass out with some bullshit Heel spur story. 58000 + names on the Vietnam monument tells me that he could have answered the call ,even if he became a cook or a desk jockey anywhere in the world ,but no his ass wasn't about to go. Yet he reaps the benefits of some that had fought and protected his ass when he was a 19 year old mommy's boy.
There cant be any type of Mutual Respect for this guy. I think he is an intruder of the WH , and dose not deserve the title of commander in chief.
Mutual Respect to all Veterans.
John Sutor
Aco 2nd 502nd 101st Abn , Vietnam 1966.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing your thoughts on this issue. For the record, it's not about what I "think" is servitude. I didn't make up those definitions that I cited from Merriam Webster's Dictionary, and there's little doubt the draft falls under the definition of servitude. One assumes that Americans would be against servitude after we amended our constitution to NOT allow institutional servitude following a very costly war. Given this premise, one wonders why, otherwise freedom loving Americans, are so willing to submit the unwilling, to servitude. The definition of servitude does not change just because it is perpetrated by one's government.
Respectful regards.
Respectful regards.
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I enlisted before my draft number came up and stayed in for 25 years, serving between the USA and USCG. The reason for the background, my feelings are based on my love for the military and this Country. While I wish the laws were different I too must concede that those who didn’t serve, avoided serving, paid not to serve or had connections, did so on the blood and tears of 18 year olds who served believing in something greater, many gave their last full measure. It sickens me to have someone who never served dishonoring those who did. Regardless of who it is.
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SSG Gerhard S.
My thanks for you sharing your experiences. I too chose to serve for 22 years, active and NG. The fact is, you, and I CHOSE to serve. We had a choice. You had the choice to volunteer, or wait to be drafted... And then many more choices to continue serving. Those who are drafted are not given that same choice, or alternatively, the choice to not serve. This is the Crux of the argument. Once we replace choice with force, or compulsion, it's no longer service, but instead, becomes servitude, at best, slavery at worst if ones choice is to not serve.
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The draft was needed and I think it is needed again. Some of the bravest men I ever met were draftees. The dodgers in my opinion brought shame on the process, especially when they were given a blanket pardon. They should have stayed in Canada!
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SSG Gerhard S.
Servitude to our government, and it's politicians should be a permanent aspect of being an American? Hmmm, I had the impression that the People, and the States created the Federal government to serve the people.... not the other way around.
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SPC Earl Semler
Yes the government is designed to serve the people. And part of that service is to protect and keep the freedoms we enjoy. The only way to do that is by maintaining a military. Right now our military has to continue to send their members over and over to combat zones because they do not have enough members to fight in those zones because there isn't enough volunteers to replace the ones who have already been there like in Viet Nam when there was a draft.
The government has an obligation to it's citizens, but there is also an obligation to the country by the citizens to ensure that the country is strong enough to protect them.
The government has an obligation to it's citizens, but there is also an obligation to the country by the citizens to ensure that the country is strong enough to protect them.
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As a Vietnam Veteran with 915 days in country---Let it go---I wouldn't have wished Vietnam on anyone.
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In 1966 at Ft. Irwin I was assigned to the 2/34th Armor 4th ID. When I reported in, there was nobody there but just a few officers and NCO's. As a PFC I was assigned to B Co and given the job of Training NCO. Over the next couple of months we received a few more officers and NCO's. Then we received draftees and a few enlisted brought in by bus. We had to rebuild some of the WW II training sites and then do basic training for the new troops followed by Armor training. We then had 2 weeks leave and the Battalion went by ship to Vietnam. Prior to shipping out we received a full staffing of officers and NCO'S. I reverted to being an Armor crewman. Later in January 1967 I was promoted to Sgt on the battlefield. I can testify to the loyalty, dedication, and professionalism of those draftees. They served with honor and some gave their lives. Our 1SG was a WW II, Korea veteran. He made it crystal clear to us back at Ft. Irwin that the citizen soldier was the one that always defended this nation. After my 27 years of service I am in full agreement with that. Requiring able bodied men to perform military service just makes them have some skin in the game. It is no more an analogy to involuntary servitude than the government requiring everyone to pay taxes. I say bring the draft back.
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SSG Gerhard S.
The draft is not analogous to involuntary servitude? Except for the fact that it's involuntary, and doesn't allow one to make ones own choices for their future...?
"servitude
1 : a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life"
"servitude
1 : a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life"
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We need to first define dodging the draft. Draft Dodgers are those who left the country or refused in some way rather than report to duty. Someone who followed the rules and was excused from the draft because of exemptions was just that: excused. I don't see a problem with that. My problem is with those who were dishonest to get those exemptions. My Dad was career military so when I turned 18, there was never any question that I would register. he did two tors in Vietnam. I enlisted before the official Vietnam era was over and I am officially a Vietnam era veteran but not a Vietnam Veteran (someone who actually deployed). With all peace, love, and forgiveness, aside, being dishonest is never the right approach.
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Man, I have to tell you, things were so very different in the draft era. Now I enlisted back in 1970, and back then the draft was going strong. We had switched to the lottery system because many dodgers were able to buy their way out of the draft by using the wealth of their families to keep them at home. Back then the pay in the Army was very, shall we say, minimal, not like today where a soldier can actually feed his family on his pay. There were no lines at the Recruiting Stations, in fact the lines were around the station with protesters interfering with those who would serve. When I went into the AFEES station back then, there were protesters outside the station handing out "KNOW YOUR RIGHTS" fliers made on old mimeographs like the handouts we received in school in the 50's. There were more people protesting the war in Vietnam then those who were willing to go over to fight, and I have to tell you, I still don't talk to the classmate of mine who went to Canada to avoid the Draft. Sure back then I made an attempt at enlisting in the National Guard to avoid going, but after hitting 4 units in 3 States I gave up on that, and finding myself unemployed with a pregnant wife, I enlisted so she could have coverage for the birth of my son, who was born whilst I was in mid tour in Vietnam. Things were so much different back then, I think you are looking at the past through the glasses of todays world. Believe me, they do not show the truth, you had to be there. I was, and I think that, perhaps, I have a bit better point to judge weather the draft was anything like slavery. Believe me it was NOT! Those who fled to Canada should have been prosecuted, hell I even arrested a rapist back in the 90's who had deserted the US Army back then, when we notified the Armed Forces Police, their response was just "Let it be, he will do his time for the rape, we don't mess with Vietnam era deserters!" Now for one who did enlist, and did serve over there, it was like a kick in the balls to see those who deserted get a free walk!
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your first hand knowledge and experience on this issue. Your words reflect you're passion on this subject.
To be clear, I wasn't necessarily making the comparison of Conscription to the Chattel slavery of pre- 1865 America, but rather based upon the general definition of slavery. It's important to note that slavery exists around the world today in many forms with terms of millions of victims. I also presented the option of Servitude in comparison. What are your thoughts on Conscription as servitude, given the definition? Thank you again for your thoughtful comments.
To be clear, I wasn't necessarily making the comparison of Conscription to the Chattel slavery of pre- 1865 America, but rather based upon the general definition of slavery. It's important to note that slavery exists around the world today in many forms with terms of millions of victims. I also presented the option of Servitude in comparison. What are your thoughts on Conscription as servitude, given the definition? Thank you again for your thoughtful comments.
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PO1 Robert Murray
Thank you sir, exactly! Those who fled to Canada and deserted should not have a time limit placed on their actions, I signed up, served and have no regrets knowing there are risks involved
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This was a hard personal moral issue that every draft age male struggled with during the Vietnam War. To obey the law and fight and possibly die in an unpopular war on a foreign soil or resist and dodge the draft. I can understand why some men dodged the draft. I can respect their convictions, but only those who had the courage to face the music and accept the legal consequences. Those who fled out of the country like to Canada were cowards. But when the draft dodgers were eventually pardoned, it took the wind out of the sail. If our government will no longer hold these individuals accountable, then how can we remain upset with them? Personally I had a low draft number of 47 and I knew I would be drafted. I dodged the draft by enlisting in the Army. I am proud to have served my country.
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SGT Patrick Wells
I had to consider what I would do if I was called up. I decided to to serve if called up. The draft stopped just prior to my having to sign up. My card is a 1H. I enlisted a couple years later. I just felt I owed this country something .
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If a potential draftee had a medical deferment, it is not as though he had rejected the military; the military had instead rejected him.
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