Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
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I have no ill will for those who chose not to go to Vietnam and stayed in college to get a deferment, or who defied the draft for conscientious reasons stayed and faced the music. If someone failed the physical for a real medical reason, it is what it is. I don't have a lot of respect for people who got out of the draft by pulling strings, and faking medical issues, etc. I also don't feel that people who left the country by choice should have been pardoned and allowed back they made their choice knowing the consequences. I had a stepfather who during Korea had an Aunt who worked for the draft board. His aunt became aware that his number was going to be coming up, and warned him she she told him she wouldn't do anything to get him out of it, and he certainly had an unfair advantage, but he used his advantage to volunteer for the service of his choice, and enlisted in the Air Force. We all have choices and choices have consequences.
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I am a Vietnam Veteran. US Army 1966-1968. A draftee like so many others. No Regrets for my military service. Of my 12 friends, 10 went to Vietnam. Two received college deferments, like so many other college students. I will never call them draft dodgers and they will forever be my friends. Draft dodgers are those who ran to Canada and were brought back to protect Nixon. Others claimed to dodge the draft when in fact they were part of the lottery and didn't have to go. Bruce Springsteen was one of those liars.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your service, and for sharing your experiences, and thoughts on this issue.
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No, but as long as the dodgers got punished of some kind. My brother served in Vietnam as I just missed it. When I came back from Okinawa after 3.4 yrs. my so called friends wanted to know if I had killed any women or babies, and why can't I found some else to do???? Those that asked, of course stayed at home safe with there mothers. For me, I hope all the gutless chicken-sh.. that did not go to Nam when called to do so can look themselves in the mirror w/o vomitting or cutting one's throat. This is not a pissing contest, but a coward is what they are!
For all that served I Salute you, and all those Marines out there I say, Semper Fi. And may God Blessed this country.
For all that served I Salute you, and all those Marines out there I say, Semper Fi. And may God Blessed this country.
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Jim Miller
I hope your "friends" are not the "normal" friends we all had. I never asked any question of any soldier. I was always there to listen to any story many of my friends shared tho. The ones who "dodged" the draft have that yoke to carry the rest of their lives. For most, that yoke is very heavy.
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There's nothing wrong with using whatever tool was and is available, but to those individuals who did avoid service by outright leaving the country because they didn't want to face the draft board, find another country. To that point, the selective service for young men should be eliminated or women should be added to the service requirement. Equality means equality doesn't it?
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Those who dodged the draft were just part of the culture at the time. I don't hold it against them at all. I still don't the lies & BS that certain people tell even to this day on why they avoided the draft. One said he had foot issues. No, his daddy paid off somebody. Another one said he was a conscientious objector but they were still drafted & put into non-combat roles. Another liar. It's the continued lies that should prevent us from electing those officials, not under the fact that they avoided the draft.
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Jim Miller
I used the "excuse" of my bro-in-law was on the biathlon team in Alaska for the 68 Olympics. The biathlon team consisted of only Army soldiers then. My brother went into Army and was stationed in Germany in 69 and was a ski patrol at a resort run by the Army. Then in 70 I thought I would hesitate shooting just long enough to get shot first. The lottery started that year. It went to 163. My number was 165.
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When I became full time Nat’l Guard, one of the old gUys in the unit told me about he and they joined the Guard to get out of Korea. I have no objection to people who joined the guard to get out of the war. They served in their way. But, along about 10 or 15 years in, they decide that they’re natural born killers, and they never served a day in active Army, as a medic I never claimed to be hard core, but I was in the 82d Abn, and they don’t rise to my level of not being hard core.
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SSG Ray Elliott
We recently lost a local hero, Gary Beikirk a Medic who won the congressional medal of honor during Vietnam, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_B._Beikirch . I would never underestimate the service of someone who served as a medic in any conflict they put their lives on the line to serve, and many went above and beyond the call. Thanks for your service!!
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I was stationed at Fort Jackson from December 1965 until April 1968 before being shipped to Okinawa. I was in the optical lab at Fort Jackson. Fort Jackson was a major reception center for inductees from New York City.
There was a ward in the hospital that inductees were sent for evaluations with medical issues. What I saw was it looked like New York City drafted everybody if they could walk. The optical lab used some of these inductees while they were waiting for the results. I saw men who were partially crippled, totally deaf, wearing braces, eyesight so bad they had to be led to where they were being evaluated.
Having seen this and listening to Donald Trump's excuse for avoiding the draft I checked on Bone Spurs as a medical condition for avoiding the draft.
The answer was that Bone Spurs is not now or has it ever been a reason for not being accepted in the Military. The reason is that it is a temporary condition easily treated. It is just calcium deposits. A shot or a pill dissolves them.
There was a ward in the hospital that inductees were sent for evaluations with medical issues. What I saw was it looked like New York City drafted everybody if they could walk. The optical lab used some of these inductees while they were waiting for the results. I saw men who were partially crippled, totally deaf, wearing braces, eyesight so bad they had to be led to where they were being evaluated.
Having seen this and listening to Donald Trump's excuse for avoiding the draft I checked on Bone Spurs as a medical condition for avoiding the draft.
The answer was that Bone Spurs is not now or has it ever been a reason for not being accepted in the Military. The reason is that it is a temporary condition easily treated. It is just calcium deposits. A shot or a pill dissolves them.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, and knowledge. The point of the article isn't Pres Trump though, but rather the nature of the draft, as servitude or slavery.
Respectful regards, and again, thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing.
Respectful regards, and again, thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing.
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SSG Gerald Thornhill
I realized afterward that I didn't complete what I all that I was starting to write. You are correct in what you wrote, and I do appreciate your response. By the way are you related to a Vic Seidel? Station in Fort Irwin with Vic in 1964.
I was served with many who were drafted, and most were not upset about being drafted and felt it was a duty to serve as an obligation for the live that we have.
I mentioned New York draft because I had examples of those who shouldn't have been drafted and were. I ran a night crew while in Okinawa and I had 2 draftees on my crew. They were great to work with. The one from New York was one that probably should not have been drafted. He had a degree in Physics and was teaching at New York Community College and couldn't a deferment. He was great to work with and made the most of his time in the military. I am still in contact with him 50 years later. The other one was from the DC area and is now a Dentist in DC. He is retired now, and we still communicate with each other.
I was served with many who were drafted, and most were not upset about being drafted and felt it was a duty to serve as an obligation for the live that we have.
I mentioned New York draft because I had examples of those who shouldn't have been drafted and were. I ran a night crew while in Okinawa and I had 2 draftees on my crew. They were great to work with. The one from New York was one that probably should not have been drafted. He had a degree in Physics and was teaching at New York Community College and couldn't a deferment. He was great to work with and made the most of his time in the military. I am still in contact with him 50 years later. The other one was from the DC area and is now a Dentist in DC. He is retired now, and we still communicate with each other.
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In America there are many things that fit your definition of servitude. Paying taxes, obeying the law, ummm, marriage (lol). Military servitude (I agree with you) is payment for services rendered to everyone. Why should only some of us pay? If one doesn’t like that, have the decency to leave. But you made a great point. Nicely argued…kris
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I don't have a problem with those who had legimate deferments or those who just were never called. I do have no respect for the cowards who went to Canada to avoid the draft. They have no honor and should have never been alowed to return to the US and if they did they should be jailed. However that lousy President, Jimmy Carter pardoned them and let them return. He served honorably in the Navy but he shit on all the vets who served. I volunteered for the draft in1969, was an Army grunt in Vietnam. Only did 2 years and got out. We lost a lot of good men in Nam and it is an insult to their memory. Draft dodgers suck.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, experiences, and perspective on this issue, and thank you for your voluntary service.
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