Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
250K
6.15K
2.36K
646
646
0
I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
2
2
0
Why has this keep coming up it's been almost 60 years half of them are already dead I only have the way we were treated by the country as a whole to be angry at and some of the greatest generation were outright slugs to be truthful knowing what I know today I would have run away to.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
2
2
0
2
2
0
"Dodging the draft" came in many flavours. Educational deferments were readily available to those who wanted them, and were a legal part of the process. I think of them in the same light as tax loopholes. (Remember the gym teacher shortage deferral?) As to those who actually fled the country, I almost have more respect for them. They didn't want to pay the price of living here so they left. At tremendous personal sacrifice for most.
The idea of an all volunteer professional military on paper sounds perfect. The reality may be that there will come a time when we are just spread too thin for the goals intended by our leaders. I would sooner see a system of National Service for two years for all. Don't want to wear a uniform? - then work in a hospital, work in a school, build roads - anything to give back a fraction of what we receive as citizens here in America.
Those of us who served have a special place in our society, and the increase in men of my age who avert their eyes when they hear I served speaks for itself. The pendulum has swung.
The idea of an all volunteer professional military on paper sounds perfect. The reality may be that there will come a time when we are just spread too thin for the goals intended by our leaders. I would sooner see a system of National Service for two years for all. Don't want to wear a uniform? - then work in a hospital, work in a school, build roads - anything to give back a fraction of what we receive as citizens here in America.
Those of us who served have a special place in our society, and the increase in men of my age who avert their eyes when they hear I served speaks for itself. The pendulum has swung.
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
@1stSgt Ronald Sheps, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Given the focus of the question; the idea that the Draft amounts to involuntary servitude, at best, or slavery at worst, one wonders how that translates into "the price of living here"? Is the price of living here the fear that, at any given time, one is required to be placed in involuntary servitude to satisfy the "goals of our leaders"?
While on the subject of our voluntary force becoming "spread too thin for the goals intended by our leaders", one might suggest that the goals of the President, and of our Representatives in Congress (they're not our leaders), are perhaps the problem. Sadly, all too often, those intended goals, don't reflect the actual outcomes, as can be seen in so many of our foreign escapades, where those goals required so many to "sacrifice" their lives, limbs, and futures for "goals" that invariably shifted with the winds of politics, never to be accomplished.
One might suggest that if our "leaders" have so many lofty goals for our citizens, perhaps they should choose those goals more carefully, ensure that America's interests, ARE the primary reason for getting involved. Only then, once the American people are sold on the necessity of such goals, perhaps they could entice enough volunteers through commensurate pay, and benefits to ensure a large enough ready-force to accomplish those goals, rather than doing so on the cheap with a draft.
Lastly, regarding the requirement of 2 years of "national service" doesn't that bring us right back to the Involuntary servitude argument? On this same issue, there are over 8 million Americans between the ages of 18 and 19 at any given time. Do you really want to employ ANOTHER 8 million (Unskilled) people in the Federal government EVERY year? This would include compensating them with Federal pay and benefits to do jobs in which they have NO training. One suspects we'd be paying them to do much of nothing, and at great cost. Additionally, if working in hospitals, schools, and on roads, as required service is so great: What's wrong with people doing those same jobs without required government service. Don't teachers, doctors, nurses, and road workers ALREADY contribute to our society without the need of government coercion?
I sincerely thank you for your service, and I also found it an honor to serve, but I do not presume that everyone would feel as honored, if they were forced into service.
Respectful regards. I thank you again for taking the time to read the question, and to share your thought-provoking ideas regarding these important issues.
While on the subject of our voluntary force becoming "spread too thin for the goals intended by our leaders", one might suggest that the goals of the President, and of our Representatives in Congress (they're not our leaders), are perhaps the problem. Sadly, all too often, those intended goals, don't reflect the actual outcomes, as can be seen in so many of our foreign escapades, where those goals required so many to "sacrifice" their lives, limbs, and futures for "goals" that invariably shifted with the winds of politics, never to be accomplished.
One might suggest that if our "leaders" have so many lofty goals for our citizens, perhaps they should choose those goals more carefully, ensure that America's interests, ARE the primary reason for getting involved. Only then, once the American people are sold on the necessity of such goals, perhaps they could entice enough volunteers through commensurate pay, and benefits to ensure a large enough ready-force to accomplish those goals, rather than doing so on the cheap with a draft.
Lastly, regarding the requirement of 2 years of "national service" doesn't that bring us right back to the Involuntary servitude argument? On this same issue, there are over 8 million Americans between the ages of 18 and 19 at any given time. Do you really want to employ ANOTHER 8 million (Unskilled) people in the Federal government EVERY year? This would include compensating them with Federal pay and benefits to do jobs in which they have NO training. One suspects we'd be paying them to do much of nothing, and at great cost. Additionally, if working in hospitals, schools, and on roads, as required service is so great: What's wrong with people doing those same jobs without required government service. Don't teachers, doctors, nurses, and road workers ALREADY contribute to our society without the need of government coercion?
I sincerely thank you for your service, and I also found it an honor to serve, but I do not presume that everyone would feel as honored, if they were forced into service.
Respectful regards. I thank you again for taking the time to read the question, and to share your thought-provoking ideas regarding these important issues.
(2)
(0)
SP5 Delphis Kaczowski
Its a little different when someone is shooting at you. Always remember that dictators want to rule the world. There are a lot of little Napolean Bonapartes ready to come here as Despots.
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
2
2
0
I joined in 7/63 I helped my brother to stay away from Vietnam one of my brothers already went to Vietnam after I was their.itwas a stupid useless war my brother died of agent orange liver cancer I'm 140%disabled agent orange has really worked on me hell plus 63/64 toxic camp Lejeune 66/67 again toxic camp Lejeune.
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing the tragic aftermath it caused to you and your brother.
(1)
(0)
PFC Joe Mcsherdon
Don't get me wrong I am extremely proud of my military experience wouldn't change what I did if I could change anything I would try to be a better marine I was just so young and immature naive as hell I was just a ignorant farm BOY eighth grade education no kid should ever be in the service at 17 minimum 20.
(1)
(0)
2
2
0
The guys who served in Vietnam have the right to be upset. As a current service member who wasn't alive during the Vietnam War I don't think I have the right. I think we can have an opinion but being upset belongs to the guys who fought and blead in Vietnam.
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing your thoughts on this issue. One wonders though, why someone who served in that war, voluntarily, or by force, are any more qualified than anyone else, to recognize the injustice of slavery, or involuntary servitude?
(0)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
MSG (Join to see) thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing your perspective on this issue. Respectfully, one might suggest or politicians turned their backs on American citizens by engaging us in a war they had no fortitude to properly prosecute. Aren't THEY ultimately responsible for all those senseless deaths? Respectful Regards
(0)
(0)
MSG (Join to see)
SSG Gerhard S. yes they are. The politicians never intended for our guys to win the war.
(3)
(0)
SP5 Delphis Kaczowski
This Country was cut in half after WW2 by guess who???? Like KOREA another stupid idea. What next an "EAST?WEST Ukraine ?????
(0)
(0)
2
2
0
My dad got multiple education deferments from the draft so he did not have to serve during the Vietnam era. The problem I have now is he is a volunteer in the Sons of American Legion Chaplain serving Vietnam era veterans, but he was only qualified for the position because of his father's ONE day of service in the US Navy in 1919 when WWI ended (and was paid $1 by Uncle Sam). This is the same guy who refused to sign for me to enlist in the Air Force at age 17 upon graduating from high school in 1987. Even as a Pentagon 9/11/2001 survivor with 21 years of service in the Air Force, he never respected my life choice to serve my country and never even contacted me after 9/11. Draft dodging + stolen valor + lack of support for his own son's service to our nation does not make him a patriot, in my opinion.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
I have a ton of respect for those who volunteered in harms way in the combat arms units …and I also have respect for the draftees who ended up in harms way but I have no respect for those who fled to Canada or Mexico just to be safe .
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject. Respectfully, though, you failed to address those who were forced to serve. Given the choice between forced servitude, and forced imprisonment. Either way, their path was not their own, but rather that of politicians who will never share the burden of service they demand of others.
(0)
(0)
CPL Larry Frias Jr
Interesting point …servitude and imprisonment …and that of politics and politicians ….
(1)
(0)
2
2
0
For those of you who dodged the draft ….F you ……I volunteered in the early seventies …combat arms 25th Infantry Division 27th Wolfhounds ….sometimes one has to serve in harms way to make it count …I’m not a grunt no more , now I’m a lawyer ….you just have to make it count !!!!!!
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service. I stand with you with 22 years of voluntary service, that does not mean I agree with forcing anybody to serve, against their will.
(0)
(0)
CPL Larry Frias Jr
I only served 4 years active duty but each and every day of those 4 years was in the combat arms unit 25th Infantry Division …it was not fun
(2)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google