Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
I don't like the ones who avoided the draft my fleeing the country, but they have to live with their beliefs had 2 friends who did that, but they snuck across the border to see me when I came home from Vietnam, only stayed for that visit and went right back to Canada, so I feel no hard feeling toward them.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your service, and for sharing your thoughts, and experiences regarding this issue.
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SPC Lyle Montgomery
Cpl George Matousek, I don't care if these cowards want to be Canadians but they should never be allowded in the United States without being arrested. Jimmy Carter pardoned these cowards and I will never forgive him for that. 3 good men from my little town died in Nam while 2 cowards went to Canada I have no respect for drafter dodgers, Still after the 60's.
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Although I "volunteered" I was coerced into joining the Army by a stepfather that did not want to support me. I worked my way up to E5 and now get 100% disability from the VA.
I am still morally opposed to forcing people to fight illegal wars.
I am still morally opposed to forcing people to fight illegal wars.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing your perspective on this issue.
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Draft dodgers in my opinion are cowards. For the most part the rich use their power and influence to buy those legal deferments. Bone spurs?? Cant join but can play sports? Come on!! Let's see the doctors diagnosis and paperwork for such a pathetic excuse to get out of the draft process. Asthma? How long? Whole childhood?
The rich using there power to get out of things like this erks me. If it was a poor inner city Brown guy would he of gotten that deferment?
I enlisted delay entry well after draft. I'm 45. I fought in Afghanistan. I'd do it all again.
The rich using there power to get out of things like this erks me. If it was a poor inner city Brown guy would he of gotten that deferment?
I enlisted delay entry well after draft. I'm 45. I fought in Afghanistan. I'd do it all again.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing your thoughts on these issues. Your statement is telling though. The rich, powerful, and politically connected will always give themselves deferments, while, you are correct, the poor will end up being sent to foreign lands to fight wars that those same wealthy/political class folks pretend to really want to accomplish something special, while in the end, predictably falling short, pulling out, and stomping on the sacrifices of those who lost their lives, families, treasures, and futures. THIS is one of the BEST reasons to NOT give our government the power to force servitude upon it's citizens. Respectful regards.
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SSG Brian Whitney
SSG Gerhard S. I agree. 100% We don't force service on our citizens. Now. Back when we had a draft the cowards used stupid excuses. Bone spurs. Asthma. Come on man. Thanks for yours as well brother
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SPC Lyle Montgomery
SSG Brian Whitney - My best friend had asthma all his life and had real bad vision in his left eye. We both volunteered for the draft together. Strictly by alphabetic order of our last names, he got sent to Germany, while I got sent to Nam. I'm not bitter at all about my service as a grunt in Nam. Back then they would take anyone with a heartbeat. I doubt that bone spurrs or asthma would have kept anyone out. If your daddy has lots of money or influence, thats a different deal completely.
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To me yes you should be upset. A real man has an obligation as a man if drafted then it turns into his responsibility. If they dodge the draft they should be a girl.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your perspective on this issue, but just to be clear: Are you saying men are obligated to involuntary servitude?
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I volunteered, my brothers volunteered, so all that jibber you wrote was really a waste of your time.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Again, I thank you for your voluntary service, but still wonder why some who chose to serve, are so eager to FORCE all our young adults, regardless their willingness, physical, or health issues into military servitude. As always, respectful regards.
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SSG Gerhard S.
MSgt Earl King - I live right here in the USA. I love my country, and the principles it spearheaded, but I fear the power, and arbitrariness of our politicians, in our federal government.
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But doesn't it matter on just how those deferrals were obtained? Is Mohamed Ali's the same as Donald Trump's? I think not.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Or Clinton's, for that matter. The real question being posed, is whether or not we, as a free country, should be forcing people into servitude in the first place? Regards, and thank you for sharing your perspective.
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MSgt Earl King
SSG Gerhard S. - Again, stop chasing your tail, and read some history books before they are burned up!!
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SSG Gerhard S.
MSgt Earl King respectfully, instead of engaging in a adhominem attack, by attacking me, we'd have much better communication if you'd simply state any factual, or historical inaccuracies you perceive I've made. The former solves nothing, and quashes debate while the latter, encourages a healthy, and honest discussion on the subject matter. I'm happy to discuss any honest challenges to my statements.
Respectful regards.
Respectful regards.
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No to draft. Resources are already spent on dealing with volunteers who regret their entry into service. Draftees would present an overwhelming pool of people doing everything possible to avoid service. Money and valuable time would be wasted adjudicating each case of resistance. Then those who resisted but were forced into service would require constant oversight again wasted resources. I would exhaust at hearing them constantly reminding me “don’t want to be here.” I remember as a child growing up in the 60s comments such as “those draft dodgers would change their tune if America were invaded.” Well that ain’t true because we are being invaded on the southern border and that draft dodger in the whitehouse and those in congress do not care.
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I was a protester in the 70s. Along with my college roommate. We got on TV. Stopped at his parents house after the TV appearance. His dad ripped us a new one. Many years later I learned that his dad was a member of the 442 in WW2. My lottery number was 165 when the lottery went up to 163 that year, My roommate joined the army a couple years later. All three sons are army vets. Go figure.
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Suspended Profile
Why people get pissed at Trump when Clinton escaped the Draft in College and vacationed in Communist Russian just like Bernie. Obama well he was Obama no military. I always refer to Clint Eastwood, “A man has to know his limitation”! I can tell you my dad and uncles didn’t want some draft dodging Hippie with them in the Bush!
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