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I asked a former female Marine if she had experienced an overwhelming amount of sexual harassment/assault while she served in the Corps. To my extreme surprise this was her response (paraphrased of course):
No. No, not at all. One time I was in the barracks and a guy in my unit snuck into my room and tried forcing himself on me. I started screaming and within a few seconds this whole crowd of Marines came barging into my room and carried him off. They’re my brothers, why would they let anyone hurt me?
Now THAT is honor and loyalty.
This brought tears to my eyes for two reasons.
Reason One: I was so overwhelmed and happy these Marines heard a fellow Marine in trouble and they came running to her rescue. There was no hesitation, no passive intervention and no second thoughts. That's just mind-blowing to me.
Reason Two: My mind was blown because very rarely has a male Soldier stood up for me like that. Matter of fact, I rarely hear any male Soldiers stand up for women like that.
I was raised where men watch their mouths around women, men hold open doors for ladies, and men take out the trash while women wash the dishes. I understand and learn more every day how the military is far from being the Southern paradise where knights in shining armor rescue damsels in distress. I also understand some women don’t like being treated that way. Roger, tracking.
Maybe those Marines who busted in her room didn’t care that she was a woman, they just heard one of their fellow Marines in trouble. Regardless of why, their actions and her response portrayed a very different world from what I know in the Army and that saddens me.
Is it sexist for me to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers? Maybe so.
Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? I don't think so.
No. No, not at all. One time I was in the barracks and a guy in my unit snuck into my room and tried forcing himself on me. I started screaming and within a few seconds this whole crowd of Marines came barging into my room and carried him off. They’re my brothers, why would they let anyone hurt me?
Now THAT is honor and loyalty.
This brought tears to my eyes for two reasons.
Reason One: I was so overwhelmed and happy these Marines heard a fellow Marine in trouble and they came running to her rescue. There was no hesitation, no passive intervention and no second thoughts. That's just mind-blowing to me.
Reason Two: My mind was blown because very rarely has a male Soldier stood up for me like that. Matter of fact, I rarely hear any male Soldiers stand up for women like that.
I was raised where men watch their mouths around women, men hold open doors for ladies, and men take out the trash while women wash the dishes. I understand and learn more every day how the military is far from being the Southern paradise where knights in shining armor rescue damsels in distress. I also understand some women don’t like being treated that way. Roger, tracking.
Maybe those Marines who busted in her room didn’t care that she was a woman, they just heard one of their fellow Marines in trouble. Regardless of why, their actions and her response portrayed a very different world from what I know in the Army and that saddens me.
Is it sexist for me to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers? Maybe so.
Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? I don't think so.
Sexual Harassment
Sexual Assault
Gender
Women in the Military
Command Post
Posted 10 y ago
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SSG V. Michelle Woods,
I think your final question "Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender?" best sheds light on the issue and our failure as an organization to foster the proper mentality. Look at how we speak- "female soldiers, male soldiers, etc." Remove the adjective from the daily lexicon, and begin to remove it as a way to differentiate soldiers. We don't say "black soldier" as a means to differentiate, why should we say "female soldier"?
Soldier is the proper noun, let's begin to use it for everyone the same a way Marine refers to another Marine.
Thank you for bringing this up. Now that we have welcomed females into the artillery world I can help lead by example in my unit and help foster a positive environment.
I think your final question "Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender?" best sheds light on the issue and our failure as an organization to foster the proper mentality. Look at how we speak- "female soldiers, male soldiers, etc." Remove the adjective from the daily lexicon, and begin to remove it as a way to differentiate soldiers. We don't say "black soldier" as a means to differentiate, why should we say "female soldier"?
Soldier is the proper noun, let's begin to use it for everyone the same a way Marine refers to another Marine.
Thank you for bringing this up. Now that we have welcomed females into the artillery world I can help lead by example in my unit and help foster a positive environment.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Males get raped in the military too. This has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with exerting unjust and unlawful restraint and dominance over another person. Exactly right when noted above "we don't say Black Soldiers, nor should we say Female Soldiers." This is the dual-standard writ large, and EXACTLY why there should be one, and only one standard. One PT standard, one marksmanship standard, one eff-ing standard. You wanna Soldier, then shut up and Soldier. The Major who unloads round after round into the clearing barrel should have been restrained and court-martialed on the spot for deadly negligence. The Jumpmaster who put jumpers out of a Blackhawk backwards should have been restrained and court-martialed on the spot, same reason. Why do you suppose these things DON'T happen? All this crap is connected in the big picture.
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SSG (Join to see)
I think your statement is the perfect example of "one team one fight." I hope that more leaders, through all the branches, pick up on this mentality. I know that is how I treat all my soldiers and any other service member I interact with. It doesn't matter if you are different gender or ethnicity. I would hold a door open or protect any one of them.
Glad to see other strong competent leaders in the Army.
Glad to see other strong competent leaders in the Army.
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CWO3 (Join to see)
Good point. I remember well when our Marines were called another name but Marines. It shouldn’t make any difference what gender, race, color or creed you are. You are a professional Soldier, Marine, Sailor, Airmen, Coast Guardsmen. Don’t forget our past history of our military personnel. We maybe from different eras but we’re all from the same cloth as our forebears. Respect, Duty, Honor, Country, and God comes with being in our Armed Forces,
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Thank you everyone for your feedback. The reason this may come across as one-sided in favor of the Marines is because it is my story, which stemmed from a conversation I had with one Marine female. She told me her story and this was my reaction due to my own personal experiences with several chains of commands and several soldiers. Of course it's one-sided. It's my story.
It doesn't mean there are no bad Marines. It doesn't mean there are no good soldiers.
It does however, represent the mindset I believe we should all share: we have to look out for one another with a level of loyalty that has the power to stomp out these slackass service members infecting our ranks.
It doesn't mean there are no bad Marines. It doesn't mean there are no good soldiers.
It does however, represent the mindset I believe we should all share: we have to look out for one another with a level of loyalty that has the power to stomp out these slackass service members infecting our ranks.
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SGT (Join to see)
She said, "No. Never," despite the fact that a Marine from her unit snuck into her barracks room with the intent to assault her?
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SFC (Join to see)
We are all soldiers, regardless of rank, race, gender, religion or whatever. We all decided to raise our right hands in defense of our nation and ask for nothing in return. We have all learned that no matter how much discipline a unit has, there is always going to be one or two who cant differentiate between the streets and the military. Those who make it that far, bring with the them the criminalistics ideals that they can get away with whatever they want. It is bad enough we have to look out for each other down range, but if you cant trust that soldier in garrison, there is no way in hell I would trust that person in combat.
As mentioned in the comments, the words female or male Soldier, Marine or whatever, needs to be removed from the picture completely. We are all one team and fight for the same genuine purpose. We shouldn't have to worry about whether or not Pvt. Numbnutz is going to rape or sexually assault someone. The military, as well as the civilian world, is full of potential predators who are looking for victims. As long as we all care enough about our brothers and sisters, we can do our best to ensure that the idiot doesn't strike.
As mentioned in the comments, the words female or male Soldier, Marine or whatever, needs to be removed from the picture completely. We are all one team and fight for the same genuine purpose. We shouldn't have to worry about whether or not Pvt. Numbnutz is going to rape or sexually assault someone. The military, as well as the civilian world, is full of potential predators who are looking for victims. As long as we all care enough about our brothers and sisters, we can do our best to ensure that the idiot doesn't strike.
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FWIW, I would suggest that the title of this thread should be "The Marines defend each other."
Because really, those Marines were just defending one of their own, not simply reacting because she was female. As a Marine, she was statistically more capable of defending herself than the average American civilian victim of sexual assault, but she still needed help, and her comrades stepped up.
This should happen not only in the Marine Corps, but in ALL branches of the military. Heck, ANY person in the USA should be able shout for help and have everyone within earshot come running to help.
Make it happen, America!
Because really, those Marines were just defending one of their own, not simply reacting because she was female. As a Marine, she was statistically more capable of defending herself than the average American civilian victim of sexual assault, but she still needed help, and her comrades stepped up.
This should happen not only in the Marine Corps, but in ALL branches of the military. Heck, ANY person in the USA should be able shout for help and have everyone within earshot come running to help.
Make it happen, America!
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SGT (Join to see)
Absolutely, 1LT Nick Kidwell! So many of these insightful, empathetic comments come from vets. From a purely sociological and/or psychological aspect...why is that? Did you feel that way when serving? I'm not being patronizing, just wondering why it's that way...
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1LT Nick Kidwell
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I don't think I have a great deal of insight or empathy...I'm just trying to be a decent human being. My civilian work background may have something to do with it, I might be better able to see the forest for the trees as compared to when I was in, and I don't have any fear of bending the noses of higher ranking persons because...well, rank matters not to a vet. :)
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PO2 Molly Burton
Raised in the 60's or not PO2 Terry Proctor, I agree with you that there is no room for people who commit these acts, and I set that standard to those who harm males and females. I understand there will always be someone bigger and badder than you...as I have been told, but that is why more people that know the right thing to do it too stand up against it. Not be create an environment where it is joked about and taken for granted. Marines have a culture and expectation that I think is taken more seriously than almost any other branch of the military. I wish that could be easily said for the other branches.
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For myself, I consider the title of Marine, and the aura that comes with it the greatest honor of my life. Nothing can replace the reverence I have experienced as people discover that I wear the cloth of a US Marine. Because of this, and this alone, we simply cannot allow ourselves to be soiled with audacities such as sexual assault, domestic violence and others. Not with our legacy. We are far from perfect and these things do happen in our Corps. If it is allowed to continue the magic will eventually fade, along with that sparkle in the eye of anyone who you just introduced yourself to as a Marine. That cannot be allowed to happen.
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Cpl Christopher Allen-Shinn
Oorah! I wish I could like this post a hundred times, Sgt (Join to see). "Semper Fidelis," explained for the masses!
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SSG Maurice P.
SFC CLUTE VERY WELL SAID I TOO AM A FORMER MARINE AND SOLDIER IN THE CORPS IT WAS FAMILY NOT SO THE ARMY
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Sgt Jason Tanner
Well said brother. A true Marine is a MARINE first, and an officer, enlisted, male, or female a distant second. That the way it is, they way it was, and the way it should always be.
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This brought tears to my eyes because I was sexually harassed when I was in the Army, which is why I didn't stay in and got the hell out as soon as I could. I am proud to have served, but am still upset at how my NCO's treated treated women as sex objects. I was really angry for a number of years about it and went into a bit of a depression when I got out because I was poor growing up, and going in the Army was a way for me to get my college paid for and build a career. Years later I realize not every NCO is like that.
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PO1 Walter Duncan
Sorry to hear that. Hate it for you, it is a supervisors job to train their people on the proper behavior, respect, treatment, etc. of coworkers. If this occurred many times it was because of improper training /knowledge/ability from the chain of command. This issue is one that applies to other issues as well, but applying it comes down to the commands and structure. Sometimes as out in the civilian world there still will be cases, we cannot prevent them all. But, we should be able to eliminate those that do it out of ignorance. Sometimes that is what it is. Those are the ones that need training, that is why we have rules to follow. But, when we are scared to follow them due to fear of backlash or effect of jobs or advancement for both involved, then we need more training on how to handle these issues. This helps these issues get resolved early before they get out of hand or God Forbid anyone gets hurt.
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Sgt (Join to see)
PV2 Lisa Wilcox - I am sorry that you had to endure being sexually harassed. There is no place in the military or civilian world where this behavior should take place.
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SSG Dale London
I am very sorry that happened to you. You are right. Not all NCOs are like that but it does not undo the personal insult and injury you suffered.
To tell you the truth... hearing about it pisses me off. I have three sisters and a daughter. I can guarantee you if that had happened to one of mine -- or one of the soldiers under in my charge, there would have been pain involved in the resolution of the issue.
I am not stupid. I know that sort of thing happens -- which is why, when my daughter was 12, I taught her some really effective moves from my army combatives training.
Five years later she used that training to cold-cock a fellow who would not take "no" for an answer.
Need I say I am inordinately proud of my daughter?
Be blessed, Lisa. I pray God gives you peace.
To tell you the truth... hearing about it pisses me off. I have three sisters and a daughter. I can guarantee you if that had happened to one of mine -- or one of the soldiers under in my charge, there would have been pain involved in the resolution of the issue.
I am not stupid. I know that sort of thing happens -- which is why, when my daughter was 12, I taught her some really effective moves from my army combatives training.
Five years later she used that training to cold-cock a fellow who would not take "no" for an answer.
Need I say I am inordinately proud of my daughter?
Be blessed, Lisa. I pray God gives you peace.
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I was a U.S. Marine before becoming a soldier. Beyond just the values of brotherhood in the Corps, there is common human decency and the Marine Corps taught us to defend those in need, not just destroy our enemy
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-Is it sexist for me to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers? Nope not at all. 99.99% of the males do it, even without thinking about it.
-Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? Nope, but in a self-involved world where the Xbox outranks common sense I wish we had more of an "army family mindset".
-Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? Nope, but in a self-involved world where the Xbox outranks common sense I wish we had more of an "army family mindset".
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Cpl Ray Fernandez
Let's just keep it simple, eliminate gender and other differences and go with Soldiers standing up for Soldiers, Sailors standing up for Sailors, etc. Hollywood gets it wrong when they portray a service member doing wrong and everyone going along with it and then attacking the sole person trying to do the right thing.
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I am happy to hear that nothing happened to your friend and I am happy to hear that someone came to her aid, but i am disgusted by the fact that someone in her unit tried something. Though that is an individuals actions making an entire organization look bad I still feel an absurd amount of sadness that she even had that experience.
Towards defending women in general it is difficult, as you say. Some women do not wish for the 'chivalry' anymore and some wish for the same standards as men just in the workplace. There will always be differences in opinion in how these topics should be addressed and these issues go well beyond the military. I have always held doors open for anyone behind me, just out of kindness, and i remember one instance where a female darn near jumped down my throat while I stood there holding the door open for her; 'I don't need no man...' etc.
which is true, haha, but she sure did need a couple more English classes hahaha
All I know is that if the first boy my daughter brings home does not call me sir and hold the door for her when they leave I am squirting ketchup on his shirt...
Towards defending women in general it is difficult, as you say. Some women do not wish for the 'chivalry' anymore and some wish for the same standards as men just in the workplace. There will always be differences in opinion in how these topics should be addressed and these issues go well beyond the military. I have always held doors open for anyone behind me, just out of kindness, and i remember one instance where a female darn near jumped down my throat while I stood there holding the door open for her; 'I don't need no man...' etc.
which is true, haha, but she sure did need a couple more English classes hahaha
All I know is that if the first boy my daughter brings home does not call me sir and hold the door for her when they leave I am squirting ketchup on his shirt...
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1LT Nick Kidwell
Cpl Michael Strickler I'm one step ahead of you. My daughter will settle for no less than a man that will treat her with respect, and neither will my wife and I.
'Course, this may mean she'll wait awhile to get married, but I'm OK with that. ;)
'Course, this may mean she'll wait awhile to get married, but I'm OK with that. ;)
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SFC Mark Merino
Amen. If you want a King....be a Queen. :) There are great people out there. We need to be patient and never settle for anything less than the best for us.
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Cpl Michael Strickler
My daughter is only one (on the 6th) so I still have to teach her how a real man acts. I just have nightmares that she will run off with a biker who has a 'the south will rise again' tattoo working as a bouncer for 'the slimy pole' during the day time... AAAHHHH!!!
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SFC Boots Attaway
Cpl Michael Strickler , I have no daughter but we do have 3 sons and I know that they will NOT treat a woman badly. They have vowed not to act like their real sperm donor in fact the two younger ones (youngest is 25) call me dad. My wife's ex just did not know what he had nor how to treat such a fine woman.
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I don't if it is because the Marines is a smaller branch and don't take just anybody unlike the Army. I know I would not hesitate to save a fellow Soldier Male or Female. I have quite a few that are like sisters to me. And I would do anything for them at a drop of the hat.
Maybe because I am older and joined at 31, I really don't know. There has to be more out there that think the same way I do? Great questions SSG Woods.
Maybe because I am older and joined at 31, I really don't know. There has to be more out there that think the same way I do? Great questions SSG Woods.
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SSG Adrian Ducker
The Army doesn't just take anybody either. The Army stopped taking felons in early 2009 and June 2009 they stopped taking people with misdemeanor drug convictions. Regardless of if we did or not, we really can't take that as a sign we are more likely to sexually assault females. When it comes down to it, a previous criminal history doesn't mean you will be a criminal while in uniform and a clean record doesn't mean you will be a saint. If I'm not mistaken Inmate Manning didn't have a record, for example, since a record would have most likely prevented him from getting a TS.
Personally, I believe that most Soldiers would not stand back and allow one of their own get raped. I know plenty of people who would rescue a victim even if she was a civilian they never met before.
Personally, I believe that most Soldiers would not stand back and allow one of their own get raped. I know plenty of people who would rescue a victim even if she was a civilian they never met before.
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LCpl Mike Reno
It has nothing to do with our smaller size, it is what is taught to us about tradition, brotherhood, legacy, and the honor of being a Marine. You can ask any Marine from 18-99 1st Commandant, Grand old man of the Corps, MC Birthday, why are uniforms look like they do, etc, etc, and every one would know in an instant. There is lots of tradition and pride and we look out for our own always. I don't know how many guys I have seen over they year who I have had long conversations with just because they saw my Marine Corps lanyard for work or a shirt, hat, sticker, we are all brothers (and sisters), always not just while active.
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