Posted on Apr 8, 2015
Veterans: Have you joined the American Legion or VFW? Why or why not?
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As I wrote this, responses to that question were arriving every minute from the "Vietnam Veterans Only" group on Facebook. It seems my question hit a nerve. Take a look at a random sampling of the responses in the image...
Can you imagine my surprise?
I was fortunate that, when I completed my tour of duty in Vietnam, I was assigned to a post in Hawaii where there was little hostility between the military and civilian communities. Thus, I was spared the abuses that many Vietnam Veterans experienced on their return to CONUS (the Continental United States). I am appalled to learn that my comrades could not find sanctuary even among other veterans. It seems “The Greatest Generation” wasn't as great as I once believed.
On Veterans Day and Memorial Day over the years, as we passed Veterans soliciting donations in exchange for a “Buddy Poppy”, my wife would ask me, “Why don't you join?” I merely shrugged and replied, “Those organizations are for 'real' soldiers. They don't want any REMFs hanging around.”
REMFs are Rear Echelon Mother F*****s, the ones who served “in the rear with the gear”. To be more precise, they were the commanders who sent troops in harm’s way, often disastrously, without exposing themselves to danger. So no, I wasn't one of those and, in truth, there weren't many “rear areas” in Vietnam. Base camps, such as the one to which I was assigned, were located all over the countryside and every perimeter was a front line. Also, in addition to administrative duties, I was a platoon leader for the base camp security force inasmuch as I was a trained infantry officer. Thus, my real reason for not joining, I suppose, was that I never felt the need.
Things changed as news broke about the scandals within the Veterans Administration. As we learned of Veterans dying while languishing on secret waiting lists and other systemic failures, I decided that I had to do something. We were taught as Soldiers to take care of one another on the battlefield. How could we do any less in these circumstances?
I joined both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars and attended a couple meetings for both. The VFW post in my community seemed better organized, and I began focusing my attentions there; however, I intend on devoting more time to the American Legion once I'm settled into the VFW.
We visit patients at the Veterans Hospital in Long Beach and the Navy Hospital near Camp Pendleton to cater events for them, sponsor student competitions and award prizes for scholarship, sanction Boy Scout units, and provide honor guards for Veterans' burials as well as community events. One of our most valuable services is helping Veterans apply for VA benefits and shepherding them through the red tape jungle. Like all other VFW posts, we contribute to our national organization and the homes they maintain for widows and orphans of Veterans who have fought in foreign wars.
I'm sure the activities vary from one post to another, but there hasn't been any drinking or smoking at mine (yet).
To be honest, there are a few WWII and Korean Veterans still hanging on, but Vietnam Veterans seem to predominate, at least among those who attend meetings. I'm especially happy to see younger veterans fresh from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq joining. Hopefully, we can help them network for education and job opportunities as they transition to civilian life. I certainly won't be displaying the behavior Vietnam Veterans experienced when they attempted to join, and I won't permit it to go unchallenged if others try.
Can you imagine my surprise?
I was fortunate that, when I completed my tour of duty in Vietnam, I was assigned to a post in Hawaii where there was little hostility between the military and civilian communities. Thus, I was spared the abuses that many Vietnam Veterans experienced on their return to CONUS (the Continental United States). I am appalled to learn that my comrades could not find sanctuary even among other veterans. It seems “The Greatest Generation” wasn't as great as I once believed.
On Veterans Day and Memorial Day over the years, as we passed Veterans soliciting donations in exchange for a “Buddy Poppy”, my wife would ask me, “Why don't you join?” I merely shrugged and replied, “Those organizations are for 'real' soldiers. They don't want any REMFs hanging around.”
REMFs are Rear Echelon Mother F*****s, the ones who served “in the rear with the gear”. To be more precise, they were the commanders who sent troops in harm’s way, often disastrously, without exposing themselves to danger. So no, I wasn't one of those and, in truth, there weren't many “rear areas” in Vietnam. Base camps, such as the one to which I was assigned, were located all over the countryside and every perimeter was a front line. Also, in addition to administrative duties, I was a platoon leader for the base camp security force inasmuch as I was a trained infantry officer. Thus, my real reason for not joining, I suppose, was that I never felt the need.
Things changed as news broke about the scandals within the Veterans Administration. As we learned of Veterans dying while languishing on secret waiting lists and other systemic failures, I decided that I had to do something. We were taught as Soldiers to take care of one another on the battlefield. How could we do any less in these circumstances?
I joined both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars and attended a couple meetings for both. The VFW post in my community seemed better organized, and I began focusing my attentions there; however, I intend on devoting more time to the American Legion once I'm settled into the VFW.
We visit patients at the Veterans Hospital in Long Beach and the Navy Hospital near Camp Pendleton to cater events for them, sponsor student competitions and award prizes for scholarship, sanction Boy Scout units, and provide honor guards for Veterans' burials as well as community events. One of our most valuable services is helping Veterans apply for VA benefits and shepherding them through the red tape jungle. Like all other VFW posts, we contribute to our national organization and the homes they maintain for widows and orphans of Veterans who have fought in foreign wars.
I'm sure the activities vary from one post to another, but there hasn't been any drinking or smoking at mine (yet).
To be honest, there are a few WWII and Korean Veterans still hanging on, but Vietnam Veterans seem to predominate, at least among those who attend meetings. I'm especially happy to see younger veterans fresh from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq joining. Hopefully, we can help them network for education and job opportunities as they transition to civilian life. I certainly won't be displaying the behavior Vietnam Veterans experienced when they attempted to join, and I won't permit it to go unchallenged if others try.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 202
Suspended Profile
Although the question was posted some time ago, the issue is still valid. Because I'm a member of both the VFW and American Legion, I'm concerned about the 'fake news' out there about both. I also belong to two other larger associations. All suffer with membership issues, greatly influenced by 'fake news' about them.
Just an observation but the Congressionally chartered groups, which are run by the membership and seen by Congress as representatives of the Veterans' voice, seem to be on the down-slide while the johnny-come-lately 'non-profit businesses' that claim to help veterans are growing, apparently because they offer veterans something to distract their time with (the established groups can do that too). It doesn't help that many in another group of veterans, who's motto says something about 'never again shall one group...' or something like that, are doing what they criticized 40 years ago. They also make excuses of the top three (American Legion, DAV, VFW) based again on experiences 40 years ago 1) believing they haven't changed, and 2) not acknowledging they are now run mostly by their own conflict compatriots.
Too many non-member opinions are actually excuses based on a one-time experience. Unwilling to accept things are different (or let go of their anger), they spew this 'fake news' in retaliation on someone who was not involved. Time to counter with 'facts' and convince Veterans their only true ally on their issues are the 'chartered' organizations, and membership is necessary to keep that voice in D.C.
Just an observation but the Congressionally chartered groups, which are run by the membership and seen by Congress as representatives of the Veterans' voice, seem to be on the down-slide while the johnny-come-lately 'non-profit businesses' that claim to help veterans are growing, apparently because they offer veterans something to distract their time with (the established groups can do that too). It doesn't help that many in another group of veterans, who's motto says something about 'never again shall one group...' or something like that, are doing what they criticized 40 years ago. They also make excuses of the top three (American Legion, DAV, VFW) based again on experiences 40 years ago 1) believing they haven't changed, and 2) not acknowledging they are now run mostly by their own conflict compatriots.
Too many non-member opinions are actually excuses based on a one-time experience. Unwilling to accept things are different (or let go of their anger), they spew this 'fake news' in retaliation on someone who was not involved. Time to counter with 'facts' and convince Veterans their only true ally on their issues are the 'chartered' organizations, and membership is necessary to keep that voice in D.C.
CPT Jack Durish
I concur. But, like you say, times change, things change, people change, organizations change. The sad truth is that we veterans now represent a small minority of the population, one that is diminishing daily. The veterans of WWII and Korea are dying off and Vietnam Veterans will soon follow. Today's wars are being fought by small units rather than grand armies and those veterans will never match our numbers. Thus, veterans groups will represent even smaller minorities. As our numbers diminish, our influence diminishes. If you think that our voice is weak today, just wait...
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I'm a member of AMVETS (Post adjutant), American Legion 759, VFW 755, Air Force Sergeants Association, Catholic War Veterans Post 1916, WAF Association, Womens Overseas Service League, and WIMSA. I maintain a findagrave site for a national cemetery, I find it sad that veterans die without any affiliation in a veterans organization in their obit (often left out by survivors I might add when I know they are a member of my post). At least support AMVETS that accepts ALL honorably discharged veterans. There's always other support groups. I'm a member of Soldiers Angels. Not joining is like not voting ~ you have little voice in veterans affairs without putting your membership where your mouth is. My membership(s) support many veterans, not just myself. It's a sharing thing!
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My dad signed me up for TAL when I was in Basic. He was visiting a town with a post & a guy was giving 1 year free promotions for those AD. Dad paid for his & mine was free. We both stayed members but eventually changed from the initial post (that one had 26 members). It's been 24 years now & I've served in mostly all-male memberships & typically as the only female & youngest active member (I welcome OIF/IEF era). I've been a chaplain, jr. vice, and served on the color guard. I also signed up for WIMSA (Women In Military Service to America) as a charter member many years ago. I'm also a life member of Amvets. I joined Amvets because many of the same people who are members of TAL are members of Amvets. Both posts are in a separate city than the one I live in. I left my previous post because of political disagreements - the "guys" didn't want me as sr. vice and elected a past commander as sr vice over me. The post that "sees" me the most is the VFW down the street - I'm not eligible for the VFW - but the drinks are cheap and when I want one that's where I go.
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Yes. I am a VFW, AL, ALR, Sons of the AL and DAV member. I personally like all of my local organizations. I have been in arguments with several people, older and current generation, about who did what, when, where, etc. All veterans deserve the support of these organizations whether they are members or not. But to keep these groups strong we need members. If you haven't already, join.
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all veterans need to join at least one of the major players in the va business am legion vfw ar my recommendations the dav is good but legion has the best customer service but don't join because of the bar join for the programs and information that is available to you
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I have definitely thought about it. I did some cursory research when I got back but still haven't gotten around to actually joining. Not sure why to be honest.
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SPC Allison Joy Cumming
1LT Goossen, I am a life member of the VFW, DAV and an annual member of the American Legion. At first I only joined the VFW because I didn't want to not participate if I was a member, at the time I didn't think it was fair to the organizations.
Then I became the National Legislative Committee member for the VFW. I learned that all of the National Veteran Service Organizations lobby Congress on behalf of veterans and service members worldwide. Being able to go into your Congressman's office and say I represent 3 million veterans holds a great deal of weight. Our numbers are one of the only reason veterans have the federal benefits we do.
This fact is not "advertised" enough in my opinion. The treatment of the WWI veterans was a driving force behind the VSO organizations growth. They have been representing us ever since. Our members a aging GREATLY, without the Post 911 veterans joining our numbers will decrease as will our influence in Congress.
Not that I am pushing, but just passing on information I learned.
Then I became the National Legislative Committee member for the VFW. I learned that all of the National Veteran Service Organizations lobby Congress on behalf of veterans and service members worldwide. Being able to go into your Congressman's office and say I represent 3 million veterans holds a great deal of weight. Our numbers are one of the only reason veterans have the federal benefits we do.
This fact is not "advertised" enough in my opinion. The treatment of the WWI veterans was a driving force behind the VSO organizations growth. They have been representing us ever since. Our members a aging GREATLY, without the Post 911 veterans joining our numbers will decrease as will our influence in Congress.
Not that I am pushing, but just passing on information I learned.
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After getting out of the Navy in 70, I quickly found that no one wanted to hear anything about Vietnam. Just hunker down and get on with life. Went to DC and visited The Wall. Found that helping fellow vets was better than drinking at a VFW so got involved with Vietnam Veterans of San Diego - the originators of Stand Down. Great organization! It helped me put things in balance.
Never had any interest in AL.
Never had any interest in AL.
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CPT Jack Durish
Yeah, there was a lot of that going around when the Vietnam War was on. I too stayed away. My wife kept encouraging me to join but I resisted until last year. I started this discussion when I discovered that there was a vast difference between groups in the same veterans organizations. Some of us involved with good posts are dismayed when we hear others complain about our organization (VFW, AL, VV, et al) based on the performance of other posts.
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PO2 Peter Klein
I can understand that. I found that being on the VVSD board, which sometimes required participation in Memorial Day and Veterans Day ceremonies and parades, got something out of my system. Now my veteran activity is wearing a Vietnam Veteran ball cap when I wear a ball cap and a USS Mahan polo shirt on Memorial Day and Veterans Day. Oh yes, getting a veterans discount when and where I can.
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CPT Jack Durish
I joined to serve veterans who aren't able to receive their proper benefits and active duty personnel who also are having a hard time. (On a side note, active duty personnel can also join)
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CPT Jack Durish, I have not joined. I guess that having a young family and making them a priority is most important to me right now. In four to five years that may change once my kids are teenagers.
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CPT Jack Durish
You need to keep your priorities straight. However, keep in mind that these organizations have benefits for your kids. Scholarships, etc
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For Sea Service Veterans there is also the Fleet Reserve Association. This is a National Organization which along with the VFW and Amer. Lefion, stands up on Capital Hill for Veterans rights Active Duty, Reserve, Veterans and Retired. The Organization is a representative for Navy, Marines and Coast Guard. More info can be found at http://www.fra.org.
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CPT Jack Durish
There are many fine organizations for veterans. Some welcome those who are still actively serving which could help them deal with any problems they may have integrating with the civilian community at large (being discussed elsewhere on RP, for example https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/many-of-our-service-members-believe-the-divide-between-the-civilian-population-and-the-military-population-is-widening-what-day-you ).
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CPO David Sharp
I would say the divide in mind set is widening. Military think about each other in adiffert aspect, perhaps in Unit as opposed to individual. There are many differences in the way of thinking and desire to complete a mission/task in the Military Ethos than Civilian.
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