Posted on Apr 8, 2015
Veterans: Have you joined the American Legion or VFW? Why or why not?
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As I wrote this, responses to that question were arriving every minute from the "Vietnam Veterans Only" group on Facebook. It seems my question hit a nerve. Take a look at a random sampling of the responses in the image...
Can you imagine my surprise?
I was fortunate that, when I completed my tour of duty in Vietnam, I was assigned to a post in Hawaii where there was little hostility between the military and civilian communities. Thus, I was spared the abuses that many Vietnam Veterans experienced on their return to CONUS (the Continental United States). I am appalled to learn that my comrades could not find sanctuary even among other veterans. It seems “The Greatest Generation” wasn't as great as I once believed.
On Veterans Day and Memorial Day over the years, as we passed Veterans soliciting donations in exchange for a “Buddy Poppy”, my wife would ask me, “Why don't you join?” I merely shrugged and replied, “Those organizations are for 'real' soldiers. They don't want any REMFs hanging around.”
REMFs are Rear Echelon Mother F*****s, the ones who served “in the rear with the gear”. To be more precise, they were the commanders who sent troops in harm’s way, often disastrously, without exposing themselves to danger. So no, I wasn't one of those and, in truth, there weren't many “rear areas” in Vietnam. Base camps, such as the one to which I was assigned, were located all over the countryside and every perimeter was a front line. Also, in addition to administrative duties, I was a platoon leader for the base camp security force inasmuch as I was a trained infantry officer. Thus, my real reason for not joining, I suppose, was that I never felt the need.
Things changed as news broke about the scandals within the Veterans Administration. As we learned of Veterans dying while languishing on secret waiting lists and other systemic failures, I decided that I had to do something. We were taught as Soldiers to take care of one another on the battlefield. How could we do any less in these circumstances?
I joined both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars and attended a couple meetings for both. The VFW post in my community seemed better organized, and I began focusing my attentions there; however, I intend on devoting more time to the American Legion once I'm settled into the VFW.
We visit patients at the Veterans Hospital in Long Beach and the Navy Hospital near Camp Pendleton to cater events for them, sponsor student competitions and award prizes for scholarship, sanction Boy Scout units, and provide honor guards for Veterans' burials as well as community events. One of our most valuable services is helping Veterans apply for VA benefits and shepherding them through the red tape jungle. Like all other VFW posts, we contribute to our national organization and the homes they maintain for widows and orphans of Veterans who have fought in foreign wars.
I'm sure the activities vary from one post to another, but there hasn't been any drinking or smoking at mine (yet).
To be honest, there are a few WWII and Korean Veterans still hanging on, but Vietnam Veterans seem to predominate, at least among those who attend meetings. I'm especially happy to see younger veterans fresh from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq joining. Hopefully, we can help them network for education and job opportunities as they transition to civilian life. I certainly won't be displaying the behavior Vietnam Veterans experienced when they attempted to join, and I won't permit it to go unchallenged if others try.
Can you imagine my surprise?
I was fortunate that, when I completed my tour of duty in Vietnam, I was assigned to a post in Hawaii where there was little hostility between the military and civilian communities. Thus, I was spared the abuses that many Vietnam Veterans experienced on their return to CONUS (the Continental United States). I am appalled to learn that my comrades could not find sanctuary even among other veterans. It seems “The Greatest Generation” wasn't as great as I once believed.
On Veterans Day and Memorial Day over the years, as we passed Veterans soliciting donations in exchange for a “Buddy Poppy”, my wife would ask me, “Why don't you join?” I merely shrugged and replied, “Those organizations are for 'real' soldiers. They don't want any REMFs hanging around.”
REMFs are Rear Echelon Mother F*****s, the ones who served “in the rear with the gear”. To be more precise, they were the commanders who sent troops in harm’s way, often disastrously, without exposing themselves to danger. So no, I wasn't one of those and, in truth, there weren't many “rear areas” in Vietnam. Base camps, such as the one to which I was assigned, were located all over the countryside and every perimeter was a front line. Also, in addition to administrative duties, I was a platoon leader for the base camp security force inasmuch as I was a trained infantry officer. Thus, my real reason for not joining, I suppose, was that I never felt the need.
Things changed as news broke about the scandals within the Veterans Administration. As we learned of Veterans dying while languishing on secret waiting lists and other systemic failures, I decided that I had to do something. We were taught as Soldiers to take care of one another on the battlefield. How could we do any less in these circumstances?
I joined both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars and attended a couple meetings for both. The VFW post in my community seemed better organized, and I began focusing my attentions there; however, I intend on devoting more time to the American Legion once I'm settled into the VFW.
We visit patients at the Veterans Hospital in Long Beach and the Navy Hospital near Camp Pendleton to cater events for them, sponsor student competitions and award prizes for scholarship, sanction Boy Scout units, and provide honor guards for Veterans' burials as well as community events. One of our most valuable services is helping Veterans apply for VA benefits and shepherding them through the red tape jungle. Like all other VFW posts, we contribute to our national organization and the homes they maintain for widows and orphans of Veterans who have fought in foreign wars.
I'm sure the activities vary from one post to another, but there hasn't been any drinking or smoking at mine (yet).
To be honest, there are a few WWII and Korean Veterans still hanging on, but Vietnam Veterans seem to predominate, at least among those who attend meetings. I'm especially happy to see younger veterans fresh from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq joining. Hopefully, we can help them network for education and job opportunities as they transition to civilian life. I certainly won't be displaying the behavior Vietnam Veterans experienced when they attempted to join, and I won't permit it to go unchallenged if others try.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 202
I joined the VFW just before retiring. Once we found our "forever" home I joined the local Post. A good group of guys, though I found myself about the youngest. Some just come to the meetings but some are active and interested in doing more. The AL group here is smaller but has a few active members. We're working together to plan activities and doing some outreach to local Vets. Both are good organizations with potential to do good things for veterans and the community at large.
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MSgt Sean Hackney
Col Donnelly, I worked for you back in the 90 while stationed in Florida, when you were flying with the 20th. What good times. Still miss the MH-53J/M's. I joined the VFW really because they were the only ones to reach out for new members, to this day I do not see AL reach out to anyone here that I see here in Southern Maryland.
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Col William DeMaso
Rich -- great question/discussion. I joined many years back, following Desert Storm, when my local hometown VFW chapter reached out. I then let the membership lapse. I once again became associated when I retired from the AF and was processing a VA medical claim. Unfortunately, I never felt a professional attraction to the organization and didn't continue my relationship. After a recent employment stint with the Department of Veterans' Affairs, I now recognize the importance of these veteran service organizations to the overall needs of the veteran community. My sense is that there is a need for these veteran service organizations to improve their outreach to new veterans by stressing their collective bargaining capabilities with respect to veterans' benefits and long-term needs. //BC
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I was not ever deployed in combat so VFW is not something I could join if I wanted to. I never even thought about joining the American Legion. I am going to look into that.
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TSgt (Join to see)
I finally joined the VFW about 2 years ago, to be honest it was more for selfish reasons initially. I was trying to get more involved with the community and find organizations to become a member of to boost a particular award that I was being nominated for at the time. However, it was one of the best things I could have done, I wish I had jooined sooner (then again, my wife and I are probably one of the youngest ones in there lol! So I guess I have a lot of time). Hopefully soon I can do the lifetime membership!
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CPT Jack Durish
TSgt (Join to see) We need more veterans to get involved in their communities. We have valuable skills (organization and teamwork) that our communities need so that they are less dependent on distant state and federal capitals
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PO1 Jeff Doan
There are many VSO's available! Find one that suits you and join! The American Legion arranged a wonderful funeral for my father-in-law last year! He was a WWII Vet, and would have appreciated the honors rendered! The Legion (from Mayfield KY)as well as the Patriot Guard in that area did an outstanding job, making the passing of this veteran an even more memorable occasion! As an employee of the John J. Pershing VA Medical Center, Poplar Bluff, MO, I see the VSO's (Eagles, AmVets, American Legion, VFW, Modern Day Vets, etc) do many good things! These are done by and for our veterans of all ages! JOIN ONE!!
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
Steven, You will like the Legion There are a lot of Great Posts in Florida I have visited a bunch of them. Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville, Ft Lauderdale, Clearwater Lots of good people.
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I am a life member of the DAV, VFW and AMVETS. When I went to join the American Legion, I was handed an Auxiliary application, I looked at the guy and showed him my ID and told him to shove his membership where the sun don't shine.
I went to my first meeting at the VFW and they didn't want to let me through the door until I pulled my membership card out and said "Bam there's your card" there were all men in the room. It took them a while to get used to a female in the room. Next thing I knew I was a Trustee.
I devote the majority of my time with AMVETS. A male friend of mine brought the Post Commander to my house. We chatted for a while and I was treated like a fellow veteran. Now I am a National District Commander over 7 states. I am also on National committees.
I went to my first meeting at the VFW and they didn't want to let me through the door until I pulled my membership card out and said "Bam there's your card" there were all men in the room. It took them a while to get used to a female in the room. Next thing I knew I was a Trustee.
I devote the majority of my time with AMVETS. A male friend of mine brought the Post Commander to my house. We chatted for a while and I was treated like a fellow veteran. Now I am a National District Commander over 7 states. I am also on National committees.
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TSgt Dawn Premock
I think I got so pissed because I worked in Fuels, driving a fuel truck and many times the only female around. I can hang with the guys, I just want to be respected as a veteran.
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CPO Mike Castro
Everybody shows thier membership card at every meeting its in the rules, everyone including the Commander. It's got nothing to do with your gender. Most Stateside Posts make you show your ID card to get in mostly because of that particular states tax laws concerning non profit orangizations.
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TSgt Dawn Premock
CPO Mike Castro - I agree with you. I had my card ready. They just didn't expect a female.
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SPC Dean J. Thompson
I'm a life member of DAV, VFW, AMVETS, 40&8, The American Legion, 2nd Infantry Division Association, Society of the 3rd Infantry Division, 15th Infantry Regiment Association & 17th Infantry Regiment Association.
American Legion Post 2 Bristol has had a female Veteran as a Post Commander that went on to be the 1st District (Hartford County) Commander. We have had many female Veterans as Officers since.
You just ran into one of the few post that still has a good old boy mentality. 1st District also had another female Veteran that went on to be Department Commander. So the opportunity is there if you know how to overcome the road blocks.
American Legion Post 2 Bristol has had a female Veteran as a Post Commander that went on to be the 1st District (Hartford County) Commander. We have had many female Veterans as Officers since.
You just ran into one of the few post that still has a good old boy mentality. 1st District also had another female Veteran that went on to be Department Commander. So the opportunity is there if you know how to overcome the road blocks.
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I have belonged to both - and have let both memberships lapse. The problem is finding a group that is active and not sitting on their past accomplishments and complaining about the state of the world. One post I belonged to the older guys (who I have great respect for) did nothing but talk about "back in my day....".
I belonged to another volunteer organization who liked to brag on their accomplishments during the Second World War. That is great - but what are you doing now?
I would probably rejoin one or the other IF I could find a post that wasn't stagnant and only wanting me to be there to clean up the meeting hall or add my $$ to the coffers.
I belonged to another volunteer organization who liked to brag on their accomplishments during the Second World War. That is great - but what are you doing now?
I would probably rejoin one or the other IF I could find a post that wasn't stagnant and only wanting me to be there to clean up the meeting hall or add my $$ to the coffers.
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SSG (Join to see)
Attempted to be that positive change but hit brick walls from those that did not want change.
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Life Member of the VFW, Freemasons, and Shriners, unfortunately, poor attendance at all. I somehow seemed to have missed the American Legion. I totally concur with the statement above about the post being only as good as its members, advocacy is important, costs are not oppressive, but ultimately, I just lack the time.
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MAJ Nathan Potter
Don't forget that there is also the Wounded Warrior Project, IAVA, countless others according to the VA...maybe the real question is are the too many and we are diluting our message?
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SGT (Join to see)
MAJ Nathan Potter, I've always wondered about Freemasons. As I understand it, Freemasons is a Christian organization for men isn't it? I was a bit confused when someone who knew I wasn't a Christian invited me.
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MAJ Nathan Potter
It is a fraternity and as for guiding moral code, it just belief in a deity. I would not describe it as a Christian organization but more as a philanthropy. You may also hear the term 'Masonic Bible' which typically is just a King James bible but a Torah or Qur'an are also acceptable. Typically, in the west it just the Christian bible.
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SGT (Join to see)
MAJ Nathan Potter, It is a shame about requiring a belief in a single deity. I respect the Mason values and the local Lodge has done a great deal of good in our community, but I cannot with integrity claim to know for certain that there is a "prime mover" if you will. I will never claim knowledge that I do not actually posses. My honest answer to that requirement would simply have to be "I do not actively hold a belief as such, but ultimately I do not know, and I suspect that it is impossible to know for certain."
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I'm a Life Member of the VFW, I'm looking into an AL membership. I'm a Life member kind of guy. I'm an 82nd Division Association Life member, DAV Life Member, NRA Life Member, and NCOA, USAA, so on and so forth. The VFW has been a very gracious and kind organization to me, I hope that the AL will end up the same way. Here is the thing People are people no matter where you go, they have their good sides and bad sides, until you get to know them you don't know what you don't know. SO, If you never set foot inside the doors you'll never know what you are missing or have missed out on. Give it a shot. I've heard the Bitching and Moaning about Smoking and Drinking, it's really not about those things... if you don't like those find a post that suites you. You have options. It's more about the relationships with other veterans that you go into these posts to gain. Try it you might just find out that you like it and found some new friends.
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CW2 Jalistair B
I had my auto insurance with USAA until I found out Geico was able to cut that in half.
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Archaic. In Florida it seems they are just a cheaper place to buy a drink.
Not saying that it's the norm, just my observation.
Not saying that it's the norm, just my observation.
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CPT Jack Durish
Sadly, it's a story I've heard far too often. Just keep in mind that there may be another post just a little farther down the road and worth the time to get there
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I briefly joined the American Legion back in 2004-2005 timeframe in St Louis. Like most people here - I just witnessed a few veterans sitting around the bar, drinking and sharing "war" stories and when my friend and I walked in - we could tell they were trying to feel us out and see where we had been, etc.. It was a weird vibe and not a very welcoming one. I never went back - and I can't speak for my friend if he did.
What i'm guilty of is not really knowing the key differences between VFW and AL (other than the serving in a foreign war/conflict) - and when asked, most people just say you have to go to both to figure out which one you like best. I'd like to be more active in a VSO - but finding the one that suits me the best seems to be a daunting task right now - as I'm juggling active duty service, potential grad school and church events.
Is there a side by side comparison of the VSOs (primarily AL and VFW)? That may be a stupid/funny question - but I think it would help a lot of vets that haven't joined, zoom in and focus on one over the other.
What i'm guilty of is not really knowing the key differences between VFW and AL (other than the serving in a foreign war/conflict) - and when asked, most people just say you have to go to both to figure out which one you like best. I'd like to be more active in a VSO - but finding the one that suits me the best seems to be a daunting task right now - as I'm juggling active duty service, potential grad school and church events.
Is there a side by side comparison of the VSOs (primarily AL and VFW)? That may be a stupid/funny question - but I think it would help a lot of vets that haven't joined, zoom in and focus on one over the other.
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I am a member of the American Legion and believe they deserve my support for all the good work they do to support veterans nationwide and politically in Washington DC. Any veteran that doesn't think the AL and VFW don't do much for them needs to wake up. The AL and the VFW do tremendous amounts of work to look out for veteran's benefits and other issues on Capitol Hill. Even if you are not a member, you benefit from their efforts. Annual dues in the AL and/or VFW are a small price to pay to ensure they can keep up their good work and I recommend all veterans that can afford it to do so.
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I am fairly new to attending meetings at my local American Legion Post, but I am surprised by the culture. We are doing the right things, meetings are efficient, and we are doing the typical things that have always been done. We as organizations need to be reaching out to help younger vet's, and getting involved in our communities. Parades and ceremonies are great, but with my children growing up and moving on to college, I want to be doing things that make a difference. I want to be involved in my community helping with disaster relief and emergency response with other veterans. I want to work along side them to make things better, like we did when we were active. I need that type of interaction, I am working to make these changes happen in my local post, even attending our state convention to learn more, but I think this is something that is going to require younger leadership. I am getting involved as a leader, and I hope to recruit others to do the same.
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CPT Jack Durish
Agree totally. Sadly, like myself at that age, young vets are struggling to find their way in an alien (civilian) world and often fail to recognize that other vets have traveled that same path and are ready, willing, and able to offer a hand
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