Posted on Jan 11, 2021
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TO THE DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS ORG (DAV)
I am removing ALL affiliated, authorization, and records from your organization effective immediately. I will no longer donate or volunteer as well.
The fact you just LEVERAGED SERVICE, INJURIES AND SERVICE as PUNISHMENT for their politics, is the most disgusting thing I have ever seen from any Veterans group or entity.
Your announcement is the most egregious, underhanded, dishonorable thing you could have done.
Without even one actual investigation being completed, without even one accused having a day in court and guilt found beyond a reasonable doubt, without ascertaining ANY REAL FACTS or evidence, your announcement calling this protest an act of insurrection is an insult to EVERY SINGLE VETERAN and DISABLED VETERAN that has served. PERIOD.
Not ONE person has been charged as such. I just checked and I cannot find a SINGLE person, Veteran or not, that has been charged with insurrection, terrorism OR as a traitor.
The ONLY evidence anyone has to date is what you see on MAINSTREAM media.. That's it. And the fact you seem to think that is "justice" enough to do this, is sickening beyond reproach and the most dishonorable move you could have made.
I don't care what your politics are. You were SILENT the last FOUR YEARS as we watched a literal COUP against a SITTING PRESIDENT take place.. NOT ONE PEEP from you about removing members that agreed with or even may have been a part of that.
For FOUR YEARS we have watched cities burn, churches burn, businesses looted and people shot in the street... but from you? CRICKETS. NOT ONE condemnation, not ONE statement of how you intend to remove ANYONE that was involved in the HUNDREDS of incidents across the nation who may have been a Veteran.
Anyone with COMMON SENSE, but especially we veterans that have SEEN this in other countries, knows this was NOT an attack, was NOT an insurrection nor was it a terrorist attack in any manner.
It was a protest with THOUSANDS of protesting where a small subset of idiots and criminals broke windows and doors and attacked officers.. And there is NO QUESTION from ANYONE that those people should be prosecuted fully.
Your statement, however, is a blanket statement and pretty much covers ANYONE that is in the doxxing now being done by CNN and MSNBC. We are seeing Veterans outed by name, image, home address, job and even disability status LIVE ON FREAKING NATIONAL TV... EVEN if those people were simply part of the protest and did NO DAMAGE at all to anything but just were there.
You also clearly forget some very important FACTS.
1) In reality the PEOPLE's HOUSE is supposed to be always open and accessible to the people for purposes of what the CONSTITUTION Says, "the right of the people to redress their grievances to those they have elected to represent them" It is part of the 1st Amendment rights we all have, the very first amendment to the Constitution.
2) Your statement is clearly political based and biased. You are supposed to be UNBIASED and APOLITICAL. You have altered that stance clearly for all to see.
3) The very fact you have not even waited for investigations to complete, for anyone to even be convicted, let alone charged with anything close to "insurrection", is dishonorable as hell. I just looked and so far, NOT ONE PERSON has been charged in any such manner. You grabbed that word off mainstream media and went with it.
4) Apparently 76 MILLION conservatives, 30 MILLION independents and however many million of us Veterans and Disabled Veterans WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU and who feel this election was filled with numerous cases of fraud, some of us having seen it with our own eyes but turned away when we tried to get the evidence seen, no longer are important to you which means YOU are not upholding not just the Constitutional Republic but the intent of that Republic and the truth, honor, and justice for ALL equally.
Just because a Veteran does not agree with YOUR politics, that does not give you or anyone else the right to pull stunts like this in such a one sided biased manner. You may not agree with those that think there was election fraud, you may not agree with those that think the last four years of rioters should have been punished.. you may not even agree that a certain female presidential candidate should have been charged for mishandling classified intel.... That's YOUR RIGHT just as it is everyone else to have a DIFFERENT opinion on those subjects.
Yet because some disagree with YOUR opinion that is opposite, I don't remember them trying to destroy their names, lives, service and more. I don't remember anyone using anything about YOU AS LEVERAGE because you did not agree with them.
I never thought I would see the day when something like this would happen, especially from a group filled with those who took the oath and served this nation.
I personally have made NO decisions about anything regarding all of it. Why? Because I ACTUALLY BELEIVE in the Constitutional Rights we all have and what they stand for. Until I see evidence, until I see people convicted beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of their peers, I WILL NOT CONVICT ANYONE BASED ON PRESS REPORTS like you have just done.
And even if so, I will NOT leverage what they did against their service and injuries incurred.
And yes, you can bet I am angry.. I am angry YOU CHOSE SIDES. I am angry you put your politics and money grab before truth, honesty and justice.
Here is something you can bet on completely however. No longer will I continue to recommend your organization to ANY Disabled Veterans I help in the future. And I will make sure others like me understand exactly where you stand now.. You crossed a line that should never have been crossed. And you took it PUBLIC by choice.
A Veterans status, the fact they are part of your organization means they are disabled, and THAT SHOULD NEVER BE LEVERAGE OR USED AS A PUNISHMENT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THEIR POLITICS.... and especially since your hypocrisy is clear since you did NOT take any similar measures over the last four years of those who rioted, killed people, burned churches and more... four years of what this country witnessed.
I can't begin to describe how sick that makes me feel to see this organization do what you have done.
Signed,
Todd W. Butson
11 JAN 2021
I am removing ALL affiliated, authorization, and records from your organization effective immediately. I will no longer donate or volunteer as well.
The fact you just LEVERAGED SERVICE, INJURIES AND SERVICE as PUNISHMENT for their politics, is the most disgusting thing I have ever seen from any Veterans group or entity.
Your announcement is the most egregious, underhanded, dishonorable thing you could have done.
Without even one actual investigation being completed, without even one accused having a day in court and guilt found beyond a reasonable doubt, without ascertaining ANY REAL FACTS or evidence, your announcement calling this protest an act of insurrection is an insult to EVERY SINGLE VETERAN and DISABLED VETERAN that has served. PERIOD.
Not ONE person has been charged as such. I just checked and I cannot find a SINGLE person, Veteran or not, that has been charged with insurrection, terrorism OR as a traitor.
The ONLY evidence anyone has to date is what you see on MAINSTREAM media.. That's it. And the fact you seem to think that is "justice" enough to do this, is sickening beyond reproach and the most dishonorable move you could have made.
I don't care what your politics are. You were SILENT the last FOUR YEARS as we watched a literal COUP against a SITTING PRESIDENT take place.. NOT ONE PEEP from you about removing members that agreed with or even may have been a part of that.
For FOUR YEARS we have watched cities burn, churches burn, businesses looted and people shot in the street... but from you? CRICKETS. NOT ONE condemnation, not ONE statement of how you intend to remove ANYONE that was involved in the HUNDREDS of incidents across the nation who may have been a Veteran.
Anyone with COMMON SENSE, but especially we veterans that have SEEN this in other countries, knows this was NOT an attack, was NOT an insurrection nor was it a terrorist attack in any manner.
It was a protest with THOUSANDS of protesting where a small subset of idiots and criminals broke windows and doors and attacked officers.. And there is NO QUESTION from ANYONE that those people should be prosecuted fully.
Your statement, however, is a blanket statement and pretty much covers ANYONE that is in the doxxing now being done by CNN and MSNBC. We are seeing Veterans outed by name, image, home address, job and even disability status LIVE ON FREAKING NATIONAL TV... EVEN if those people were simply part of the protest and did NO DAMAGE at all to anything but just were there.
You also clearly forget some very important FACTS.
1) In reality the PEOPLE's HOUSE is supposed to be always open and accessible to the people for purposes of what the CONSTITUTION Says, "the right of the people to redress their grievances to those they have elected to represent them" It is part of the 1st Amendment rights we all have, the very first amendment to the Constitution.
2) Your statement is clearly political based and biased. You are supposed to be UNBIASED and APOLITICAL. You have altered that stance clearly for all to see.
3) The very fact you have not even waited for investigations to complete, for anyone to even be convicted, let alone charged with anything close to "insurrection", is dishonorable as hell. I just looked and so far, NOT ONE PERSON has been charged in any such manner. You grabbed that word off mainstream media and went with it.
4) Apparently 76 MILLION conservatives, 30 MILLION independents and however many million of us Veterans and Disabled Veterans WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU and who feel this election was filled with numerous cases of fraud, some of us having seen it with our own eyes but turned away when we tried to get the evidence seen, no longer are important to you which means YOU are not upholding not just the Constitutional Republic but the intent of that Republic and the truth, honor, and justice for ALL equally.
Just because a Veteran does not agree with YOUR politics, that does not give you or anyone else the right to pull stunts like this in such a one sided biased manner. You may not agree with those that think there was election fraud, you may not agree with those that think the last four years of rioters should have been punished.. you may not even agree that a certain female presidential candidate should have been charged for mishandling classified intel.... That's YOUR RIGHT just as it is everyone else to have a DIFFERENT opinion on those subjects.
Yet because some disagree with YOUR opinion that is opposite, I don't remember them trying to destroy their names, lives, service and more. I don't remember anyone using anything about YOU AS LEVERAGE because you did not agree with them.
I never thought I would see the day when something like this would happen, especially from a group filled with those who took the oath and served this nation.
I personally have made NO decisions about anything regarding all of it. Why? Because I ACTUALLY BELEIVE in the Constitutional Rights we all have and what they stand for. Until I see evidence, until I see people convicted beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of their peers, I WILL NOT CONVICT ANYONE BASED ON PRESS REPORTS like you have just done.
And even if so, I will NOT leverage what they did against their service and injuries incurred.
And yes, you can bet I am angry.. I am angry YOU CHOSE SIDES. I am angry you put your politics and money grab before truth, honesty and justice.
Here is something you can bet on completely however. No longer will I continue to recommend your organization to ANY Disabled Veterans I help in the future. And I will make sure others like me understand exactly where you stand now.. You crossed a line that should never have been crossed. And you took it PUBLIC by choice.
A Veterans status, the fact they are part of your organization means they are disabled, and THAT SHOULD NEVER BE LEVERAGE OR USED AS A PUNISHMENT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THEIR POLITICS.... and especially since your hypocrisy is clear since you did NOT take any similar measures over the last four years of those who rioted, killed people, burned churches and more... four years of what this country witnessed.
I can't begin to describe how sick that makes me feel to see this organization do what you have done.
Signed,
Todd W. Butson
11 JAN 2021
Veterans group members in Capitol riot to be purged from organizations
Posted from foxnews.comPosted in these groups: 
DAV
Disabled Veterans
Injuries
Veterans Advocate
Veterans Service Representative
DAV Disabled Veterans Injuries Veterans Advocate Veterans Service Representative
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
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You actually sent this to the wrong spot. I think you were trying to send an email or maybe post this to the DAV, this is actually a completely different site called Rally Point. I'm assuming this because you started off your monologue with "To the DAV"... which this is clearly not.
But since you're sharing your prose, I'd like to point out some logic.
1. The peoples house is not supposed to be open to everyone at all hours. There's a difference between redress for grievances and riots storming a building and beating police officers into comas. Perhaps in some alternate universe its OK to steal government property and destroy the offices of congress officials, but that's against the law here. That's not "THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA" lying to us, that's actual people posting videos of themselves doing this.
2. It's not political to ban members from your group who commit federal crimes. In fact, that's pretty good business sense for any non profit that relies on donations to help others.
3. 18 USC Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto....
Kind of like storming the steps of the Capital and stopping the Constitutional process of validating our Electoral College votes? Whether any person agrees with them or not, each state certified its votes in accordance with the constitution. Any attempt to hinder or prevent that outside the law is insurrection or rebellion. Especially when it's a mob.
4. 76 Million Conservative and 30 Million Independent voters do not all agree with you. Almost all the Senators who were going to contest the electoral results changed their mind after the riot. A significant number of conservatives and independent voters and spokespersons disagreed with fighting the election results. Members of the Presidential Cabinet are resigning in protest. Mitch McConnells wife, one of the longest serving cabinet members resigned in protest. You cannot claim the Republican party is united on this, it's heavily fractured with most GOP senators and politicians trying to distance themselves from the riots.
5. You're seeing veterans outed on TV because they were in the Capital building, on CCTV, posting TikTok videos, taking selfies and posing for pictures. It's not as if they weren't there. If you were inside the Capitol building while the police were trying to stop you, that's trespassing and it's illegal.
6. If you choose not to recommend a veteran service who can help a veteran because you don't agree with their political statement, you've just placed your politics above the livelihood of your fellow veteran. I'm sure that homeless vet will sleep soundly on the cold concrete knowing you're not supporting non profit organizations you have a grievance against. That will definitely make that veteran feel warm at night.
7. In no way has DAV "leveraged" anyone's veteran status and used it against them. It's an organization, you don't have a right to be a member and you aren't punished by not being a member.
8. Do you realize the foreign news is reporting we had an attempted coup? Only in America would we call it a "protest" when 8,000 people are led by the outgoing leader to the steps of the Senate and encouraged to storm the halls of Congress, stop Congressional business by force - and not call it a coup.
If you want to gripe to the DAV, write them an email and tell your friends on FB about it. There are just not that many people on here who are willing to pretend that this was not an assault on the core of our democracy. Even Mitch McConnell said that undermining the constitutional process is an attack on the very fabric of our democracy.
But since you're sharing your prose, I'd like to point out some logic.
1. The peoples house is not supposed to be open to everyone at all hours. There's a difference between redress for grievances and riots storming a building and beating police officers into comas. Perhaps in some alternate universe its OK to steal government property and destroy the offices of congress officials, but that's against the law here. That's not "THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA" lying to us, that's actual people posting videos of themselves doing this.
2. It's not political to ban members from your group who commit federal crimes. In fact, that's pretty good business sense for any non profit that relies on donations to help others.
3. 18 USC Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto....
Kind of like storming the steps of the Capital and stopping the Constitutional process of validating our Electoral College votes? Whether any person agrees with them or not, each state certified its votes in accordance with the constitution. Any attempt to hinder or prevent that outside the law is insurrection or rebellion. Especially when it's a mob.
4. 76 Million Conservative and 30 Million Independent voters do not all agree with you. Almost all the Senators who were going to contest the electoral results changed their mind after the riot. A significant number of conservatives and independent voters and spokespersons disagreed with fighting the election results. Members of the Presidential Cabinet are resigning in protest. Mitch McConnells wife, one of the longest serving cabinet members resigned in protest. You cannot claim the Republican party is united on this, it's heavily fractured with most GOP senators and politicians trying to distance themselves from the riots.
5. You're seeing veterans outed on TV because they were in the Capital building, on CCTV, posting TikTok videos, taking selfies and posing for pictures. It's not as if they weren't there. If you were inside the Capitol building while the police were trying to stop you, that's trespassing and it's illegal.
6. If you choose not to recommend a veteran service who can help a veteran because you don't agree with their political statement, you've just placed your politics above the livelihood of your fellow veteran. I'm sure that homeless vet will sleep soundly on the cold concrete knowing you're not supporting non profit organizations you have a grievance against. That will definitely make that veteran feel warm at night.
7. In no way has DAV "leveraged" anyone's veteran status and used it against them. It's an organization, you don't have a right to be a member and you aren't punished by not being a member.
8. Do you realize the foreign news is reporting we had an attempted coup? Only in America would we call it a "protest" when 8,000 people are led by the outgoing leader to the steps of the Senate and encouraged to storm the halls of Congress, stop Congressional business by force - and not call it a coup.
If you want to gripe to the DAV, write them an email and tell your friends on FB about it. There are just not that many people on here who are willing to pretend that this was not an assault on the core of our democracy. Even Mitch McConnell said that undermining the constitutional process is an attack on the very fabric of our democracy.
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PO1 Todd B.
SGT Anna Kleinschmidt - My comment was not about JUST that... which I clearly stated as well.. It was about how they did it, the intent politically, and the fact that they should NOT BE involved in punishing anyone for any reason, especially those disabled Veterans that TRUSTED the organization in numerous ways.
I ALSO have issue with the terms some people keep using.. Riots, terrorism, insurrectionists, seditionists, traitors, and of course today from biden another new one, insurgents...
There were THOUSANDS of people at that protest.. A SMALL subset in the hundreds went off on their own. The MAJORITY were and did take NO PART in that. Many of those however, WERE LET INTO the building by TWO Capital Police who even held doors open for them.
My anger is because some of you are BLANKETING EVERYONE into the same group. And all without any due process or actual evidence of what each did individually.
This was not even close to an insurrection or anything of the sort.. and MANY of us that HAVE seen them for real, can tell you that. This was a PROTEST JUST LIKE the HUNDREDS we have all been forced to endure from the left for FOUR YEARS. And yes, s group broke off and damaged property and more and need to be arrested and held accountable. I want the blame game to stop, I want the outright push against others that had NOTHING to do with the other group to stop, I want the censorship to stop and I want the scare mongering to stop.
Even the FBI is now doing it.. This so called declaration of attacks in all 50 states, is BULLSHIT. Why? Because if that were true, is these 'group's had actually posted and discussed ANY such actions AND per the FBI WERE STILL DOING SO, we would have seen screenshots, posts, documentation, pictures and more ALL OVER THE NEWS and TV non stop.. and most likely the FBI would have actually arrested someone by now from the place they supposedly made all these posts and threats.
Add to that, the fact that every major conservative site was taken OFFLINE by all the censorship.. So exactly WHAT site are they supposed using to plan all this and post their threat nows and every day?
Please tell me you are not that brainwashed that you can't see right through this? The FBI along with democrats initiated a REAL coup attempt starting the moment Trump became President.. And if you believe anything that comes from the FBI NOW, you truly have been lost because even common sense should have you questioning everything coming out of that agency now.
I ALSO have issue with the terms some people keep using.. Riots, terrorism, insurrectionists, seditionists, traitors, and of course today from biden another new one, insurgents...
There were THOUSANDS of people at that protest.. A SMALL subset in the hundreds went off on their own. The MAJORITY were and did take NO PART in that. Many of those however, WERE LET INTO the building by TWO Capital Police who even held doors open for them.
My anger is because some of you are BLANKETING EVERYONE into the same group. And all without any due process or actual evidence of what each did individually.
This was not even close to an insurrection or anything of the sort.. and MANY of us that HAVE seen them for real, can tell you that. This was a PROTEST JUST LIKE the HUNDREDS we have all been forced to endure from the left for FOUR YEARS. And yes, s group broke off and damaged property and more and need to be arrested and held accountable. I want the blame game to stop, I want the outright push against others that had NOTHING to do with the other group to stop, I want the censorship to stop and I want the scare mongering to stop.
Even the FBI is now doing it.. This so called declaration of attacks in all 50 states, is BULLSHIT. Why? Because if that were true, is these 'group's had actually posted and discussed ANY such actions AND per the FBI WERE STILL DOING SO, we would have seen screenshots, posts, documentation, pictures and more ALL OVER THE NEWS and TV non stop.. and most likely the FBI would have actually arrested someone by now from the place they supposedly made all these posts and threats.
Add to that, the fact that every major conservative site was taken OFFLINE by all the censorship.. So exactly WHAT site are they supposed using to plan all this and post their threat nows and every day?
Please tell me you are not that brainwashed that you can't see right through this? The FBI along with democrats initiated a REAL coup attempt starting the moment Trump became President.. And if you believe anything that comes from the FBI NOW, you truly have been lost because even common sense should have you questioning everything coming out of that agency now.
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PO1 Todd B.
SGT Anna Kleinschmidt - So why refuse to post any facts or evidence to show I am wrong? To convince me my opinion and interpretation is wrong? I don't get it.. I passionately make my argument and I either never get any facts I can actually check to refute what I say or they block me because they don't like what I say.. And to be honest, being censored by a military person here, is not something I would ever have thought would happen.. What happen to opinion, discussion and even argument over things? THAT is what's wrong here and why our Republic will fold and collapse unless SOMETHING changes and does so very soon...
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I don’t see the issue. These veterans organizations are stating that they will take action against members who are convicted of crimes related to the riots. They aren’t universally banning people based on video footage. People convicted of federal felonies should be banned from vet-orgs because they have dishonored their oath. Expelling felons is logical nonprofit business policy...
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SGM (Join to see)
PO1 Todd B. The DAV is a 501(c)3 nonprofit business. IRS Form 990 for 2018 is attached.
https://www.dav.org/wp-content/uploads/990_2018.pdf
https://www.dav.org/wp-content/uploads/990_2018.pdf
{Pà2+`V«éU qÈär2áéº Ói;ZOOðvJR"WQÕBH3«9fÙòK§í'?äºAQRçDkDÉ#Öí#ìàT04Î3c@ÏLÁ j@ÐáÆi6ýþÚ!Çé30lÐRx&§è dÄ@ÓµiuíêH"6é0q@ïáÐjOO §§a5µL'i¡z§«ªuzkÒÊáQ&íÎÉWÁAÕSL&0NÂdpÁØUÈt4"þDxD=` hCUÅÐañ9i¿ývþ¿é§i§}Ðr@¶P&§}ñV_kîj¶¶kö§Ýºßöë_ü?ÿûÂ~þØAúêµé ôªC?9ÿ ýßúuáÂëëô~»ïý¿ÿOÓOÓÂNÓõÓéu_TÓïëÿDýýò;r;VíÂ)Zy=DHpR,# Ø\,~e{_ÿúëÒª(:Aÿê*úªw_MÒÕt~ß»]îNÖõíÿ{ÿÿÿÿì¡rêko]]dcF?JÒ"eqð«/!8ýui!"CÕBùð#"G ?"ErÂ!ï ƺ~§q_Ãý·èëæÂÙà#3ÜðÎ3ñÁ}3ÂîxSÁÂðíOÿZúáC_ë§Ø·ÖÃj¡}4ï?M-kôÿ¶ºÏÿÿçÃ]È/ÿÿ§Zki...
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PO1 Todd B.
SGM (Join to see) - So what if the tax designation is there, ALL organizations have some category they are placed in. They are not a "business" like you typically think of that makes money and profit.. Tax status is meaningless in this situation and you know it. They are a NON profit organization with representation and access to the V/A facilities, records and more. Their mandate is to REPRESENT and ASSIST other Veterans with medical and other needs as well as moving through the V/A claims system.
Trying to twist this around and beat me over the head with it, is bullshit too. I said what I said, I stand by what I said AND I stand with my oath to the ENTIRE Constitutional process, to INCLUDE DUE PROCESS and INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT BY A JURY OF THEIR PEERS.
And If you and some others don't like that fact, well maybe you need to sit back and rethink things because I sure as hell know exactly what all that means in the oath we take.
Trying to twist this around and beat me over the head with it, is bullshit too. I said what I said, I stand by what I said AND I stand with my oath to the ENTIRE Constitutional process, to INCLUDE DUE PROCESS and INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT BY A JURY OF THEIR PEERS.
And If you and some others don't like that fact, well maybe you need to sit back and rethink things because I sure as hell know exactly what all that means in the oath we take.
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SGM (Join to see)
PO1 Todd B. a nonprofit organization is a business. Public, private, and nonprofit organizations have business rules and policies regardless of their mission and/or purpose.
“ A nonprofit organization is a business that has been granted tax-exempt status by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) because it furthers a social cause and provides a public benefit.”
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/non-profitorganization.asp
“ A nonprofit organization is a business that has been granted tax-exempt status by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) because it furthers a social cause and provides a public benefit.”
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/non-profitorganization.asp
A nonprofit has tax-exempt status for furthering religious, scientific, charitable, educational, literary, public safety, or cruelty-prevention causes.
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Expected! There is no doubt that veterans who participated in the riots will find themselves in trouble with Veteran Organizations. These organization might want to make sure the ones they purge are just the ones that stormed the capital and not the ones that peacefully protested. Free Speech does not allow you to destroy property and commit violence. Organizations will distance themselves from members who riot, as they should.
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