Posted on Nov 21, 2015
Commandant Orders Review of Physical Fitness Program After Marine Feedback | Marine Corps...
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Marine PFT Review Again?
Commandant Orders Review of Physical Fitness Program After Marine Feedback | Marine Corps...
Posted from mca-marines.orgPosted in these groups: 
PFT
PFT
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 5
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I heard about this coming down the pipe.
The PFT should be constantly reevaluated to make us a stronger force, just like the introduction of the CFT makes us a stronger force.
I entered back when we still had "kipping" and females did the 1.5 mile run instead of 3 miles. I took a hit on my score until I built up more upper body strength to compensate for the new system.
Part of this is that we are "training for the test" which has 3 very simple metrics, which are all "own body weight" and specifically Health related, as opposed to Objectively Combat related. There's a certain point where you have to say when X% of people are getting perfect or "top" marks, the scale is flawed. Not that test isn't needed, but the scale isn't aligned correctly.
The PFT should be constantly reevaluated to make us a stronger force, just like the introduction of the CFT makes us a stronger force.
I entered back when we still had "kipping" and females did the 1.5 mile run instead of 3 miles. I took a hit on my score until I built up more upper body strength to compensate for the new system.
Part of this is that we are "training for the test" which has 3 very simple metrics, which are all "own body weight" and specifically Health related, as opposed to Objectively Combat related. There's a certain point where you have to say when X% of people are getting perfect or "top" marks, the scale is flawed. Not that test isn't needed, but the scale isn't aligned correctly.
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Capt Jeff S.
I was one of those that had no problem getting a 300 PFT the first 12 years of my career. I was a high first class when I retired. That said, I trained to the PFT because that's what the Corps was looking for. And being as objective and fair as I can, it doesn't necessarily equate to what is most helpful in combat. My endurance was through the roof, but my sprint speed was not the fastest. Which is going to be more helpful avoiding sniper fire as you move from one cover to another? Some combination of the two. It would be nice to be both. My training for distance running trained different muscles and when I was doing ultra long distance (10-20 miles / day), my jumping was a bit sprung. Again, being able to jump across a ditch instead of going down into it and crawling up the other side can save you time and it might be the time that saves your life.
I honestly don't know what the answer is. The more difficult you make the test, the harder it is for people to train for it. It needs to be a simple test, yet objective and fair at identifying those attributes that make for the best Combat Marine. Long jump and broad jump are a bit biased toward taller people, but they do measure your ability to get across obstacles you might encounter in combat. A 440yd dash might be good for determining sprint speed. It combines sprinting with anaerobic endurance. You could introduce pushups in addition to pullups as both measure body strength, although pullups does do more to measure strength / weight. Both however, complete the picture. The PFT should have no more than 7 different events. These are just a few suggestions of what they might want to add.
I honestly don't know what the answer is. The more difficult you make the test, the harder it is for people to train for it. It needs to be a simple test, yet objective and fair at identifying those attributes that make for the best Combat Marine. Long jump and broad jump are a bit biased toward taller people, but they do measure your ability to get across obstacles you might encounter in combat. A 440yd dash might be good for determining sprint speed. It combines sprinting with anaerobic endurance. You could introduce pushups in addition to pullups as both measure body strength, although pullups does do more to measure strength / weight. Both however, complete the picture. The PFT should have no more than 7 different events. These are just a few suggestions of what they might want to add.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Capt Jeff S. - Exactly this.
We're balancing several different issues.
1) Training for the Test. When you know the exact questions on any exam, it becomes MUCH easier to get a high score on it.
2) (this specific) Test is a measure of Health, as opposed to Combat Preparedness. Like you, my endurance is insane. I could do a 20+ road march today at USMC standards, but I don't have anywhere near the same speed I did on 3 miles of below.
3) Simplicity and Objectivity. It has to be easy to measure and "fair" in that no matter what we are doing, everyone is using the same weight (like an ammo can), whether it is fixed or their body weight. We also can't have more than half a dozen events or so. Not only does it make it needlessly complex, but it changes the weighting to the point wear any one test will become effectively worthless if they are all pass/fail.
We're balancing several different issues.
1) Training for the Test. When you know the exact questions on any exam, it becomes MUCH easier to get a high score on it.
2) (this specific) Test is a measure of Health, as opposed to Combat Preparedness. Like you, my endurance is insane. I could do a 20+ road march today at USMC standards, but I don't have anywhere near the same speed I did on 3 miles of below.
3) Simplicity and Objectivity. It has to be easy to measure and "fair" in that no matter what we are doing, everyone is using the same weight (like an ammo can), whether it is fixed or their body weight. We also can't have more than half a dozen events or so. Not only does it make it needlessly complex, but it changes the weighting to the point wear any one test will become effectively worthless if they are all pass/fail.
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I think the weight/comp needs to be looked at more carefully, I Never failed a PFT even when I was being medically boarded out I'd run past the point of it hurting so I didnt fail, but i was always like 3pnds over and omfg was that the end of the world.
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Sgt Ronald Petroski
I was in basic 20lbs over doing 15 pull ups. Max sit ups and 3 miles in 24 minutes. Btw I was 30. But younger kids couldn't even do a pull up.
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LCpl Mark Lefler
Sgt Ronald Petroski - the thinest kid in our company couldnt do more then two pull ups.
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I have never forgotten the words that a WWII, Korea and VN vet spoke to me in the early 70s. The Corps was rebuilding from the war and had discovered weight control. The old salt's opinion was that, in war, the fat get thin and the thin die. Obviously an overstatement, but it definitely framed the conversation in a different perspective.
The salient point is during my career (60s to late 80s) the tests and emphasis changed several times. We went from utilities, boots, field pack and T/O weapon to shorts and Nikes, first it was endurance, then strength and speed. The real objective is ensuring when the siren blows, the force is ready to respond effectively with attention on the situation at hand rather than the individuals ability to perform.
The particulars and objectives of the tests will change according to the opinions of the staff personnel who are able to gain the attention of the decision makers. The individual's responsibility is to keep him or herself adequately prepared physically and mentally to respond to the changes and accept the fact that while he or she may ace the test under one criteria, they will always be able to satisfy the minimum. Some of us are draft horses while others are quarter horses, but there is a place for all of us when the chips are down. Most of the senior personnel I dealt with were able to put it all in perspective to preserve those who didn't exactly fit into the current fad, but were invaluable when the call came.
The salient point is during my career (60s to late 80s) the tests and emphasis changed several times. We went from utilities, boots, field pack and T/O weapon to shorts and Nikes, first it was endurance, then strength and speed. The real objective is ensuring when the siren blows, the force is ready to respond effectively with attention on the situation at hand rather than the individuals ability to perform.
The particulars and objectives of the tests will change according to the opinions of the staff personnel who are able to gain the attention of the decision makers. The individual's responsibility is to keep him or herself adequately prepared physically and mentally to respond to the changes and accept the fact that while he or she may ace the test under one criteria, they will always be able to satisfy the minimum. Some of us are draft horses while others are quarter horses, but there is a place for all of us when the chips are down. Most of the senior personnel I dealt with were able to put it all in perspective to preserve those who didn't exactly fit into the current fad, but were invaluable when the call came.
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