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LTC Orlando Illi
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Ms. Brenda's Dad was Glider Infantry in both Normandy and Market Garden. I just can't fathom being towed into battle behind a C-47 / D-C3 in a metal-canvas-plywood glider.
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LTC Stephen C.
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Sgt Wayne Wood, the only man I ever met (c. 1973) that was awarded the Glider badge was LTC Billy R. Eidson (now deceased). LTC Eidson was the original commander of the 4th SF Support Battalion, 20th SFG(A) when it was organized, effective OCT72 and served in that capacity until sometime in 1974. Former enlisted, he was a big, daunting and scary man!
I don't think he made any glider landings in WWII as he was born in 1928, and I can find no literature indicating that he served during WWII. However, the Glider Badge was awarded until 1949, so he may have received it post WWII. LTC Orlando Illi
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
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Studied this in Squadron Officers School as example of bad planning and to some extent leadership.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
>1 y
LTC Orlando Illi - Unlike Ike and Bradley who made "allied" plans and demanded/assumed that everyone would fit in to it, Monty actually gathered together the units involved and explained what his goal/plan was and who was to do what and where. The only "problem" Gavin had was that he wanted his para's to be the ones in Arnhem. The Polish likewise, had few problems. Based on Dragoon and Normandy droppings, the Arnhem mission was not outside the scope of what any para force could do. Horrocks had been accused of cowardice by Patton (he fell under the same Churchill attrition rules Monty fell under) so he was chomping at the bit to be let off the leash and "kick ass".

Declassified intel papers do not really swing towards a misinterpretation error. As pointed out earlier, the Dutch resistance were as effective/powerful as the Maquis and although they may have missed a tank or two, they were correct in their report that the German units there were for rest and rec only and had no further stocks. Basically they had enough spares/ammo to have a firefight or two, but little else. They could not have had a three day parry with Horrocks over a bridge or two. The single highway, likewise, was not the slaughter that the movie makes out. 30 Corps wipes it out in under an hour. Horrocks is actually riding in a Sherman, not a Fox/Ferret. His Sherman blows its radio and he transfers to the Fox/Ferret. Had he NOT moved, he'd have missed the stop order. This would have put him in Arnhem right on time. He'd have linked with the British Paras and Arnhem would have surrendered. Model was already planning surrender. He knew he had no attrition mercy. The SS "last stand on the bridge" was like McQueen's bike ride in the Great Escape. Great movie piece, but inaccurate. Again, attrition was not on Germany's side. Fresh or tired Germans had as little ammo as they did. No more. A failed plan or brilliant plan is not going to change that.

England had 3 small Normandy beaches, America had the two largest. Why? Again, again, again, Churchill pulled the plug on France and would not relent. Britain was to lose as few casualties "freeing the French" as possible. Monty's leash keeps him in Caen. Monty's job is to follow orders. The orders demand little life lost liberating Europe. Again, British operations were as successful as ours. They just weren't as fast. USA took X French towns from the Nazi's, UK took X. Both were successful. UK just was slower. The goal was not to lose anymore men than needed. The French were out to pillory Churchill after Gallipoli. Churchill was only PM for 16 days when Dunkirk loomed. So Churchill had a hatred for the French that was rivaled only by Hitler. As a result of France's surrender, he forbade anything other than bare minimum assistance. And wherever possible, Free-French troops were to be used as cannon fodder. Dick or not, egotist or not, thats what Monty had to work with. Monty was never unleashed, nor were Horrocks, Alexander, Browning or anyone else for that matter. Only one Churchill ever allowed freedom was Field Marshall Slim in Burma.

That's politics. Warsaw uprising occurs days before Market Garden. Russia demands it be allowed to willow on the vine. Russia also demands that the Dutch be punished. The majority of the SS kicking Russia's ass at this moment are Dutch/Belgian volunteer units. Manhattan Project is successfully moving along, but may not scare Japan into surrendering. So Stalin's help is needed to fight Japan. FDR agree's to Stalin's demands. The Arnhem plug gets pulled. That's politics again. Nothing wrong with Market Garden's plan. A moron could have planned it and it would have worked. German advance knowledge of the plan at that late a stage in the war, would not have helped them. They were losing an attrition war. That loss was growing up to December.
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LTC Orlando Illi
LTC Orlando Illi
>1 y
PO3 Donald Murphy - You stated that there was "...Nothing wrong with Market Garden's plan. A moron could have planned it and it would have worked..." Seriously? Have you any idea of the probabilities of 3 Airborne Divisions SIMULTANEOUSLY capturing thee drop zones, SIMULTANEOUSLY consolidating said drop zones and then SIMULTANEOUSLY capturing and holding three Bridges and have those bridges remain intact? Even a cursory analysis puts simultaneous success of the Airborne portion of the plan at best between 50- 60%. As an side - the British Airborne DROP ZONES WERE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO ARNHEM BRIDGE - THEY WERE @ 6 MILES AWAY. Further, the probability of XXX British Corps successfully fighting their way along a single highway to rapidly relieve the 3 Airborne Divisions at each of the bridges in less then 72 hours would have no more than a 40-50% probability of success. Accordingly, even with the best case scenario the operation had only a 30% probability of success, (0.5 x 0.6 ~ 0.3). You are right though in that only a Moron would commit crack Airborne troops to any operation with that probability of success.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
>1 y
TROM - Tabulated Record Of Movements. Actually Horrocks made it to the outskirts of Arnhem and his TROM showed little German interference. German TROMs for Model's units corroborate 30 corps' records. Horrocks had enough materiel and expendables to remain in Arnhem. Polish TROMS show them reaching their objectives within the envelope allotted. All missions - as you know - have a margin of error planned in to them. What was Garden's MOE? Note that the American and British units landed and were on the ground long before the mission was cancelled/scrubbed. No American TROMs (that are declassified) show any concern for support or withdrawal due to objective failure. So either USA units felt confident in their ability to overcome any miscalculations or they failed to relay that. British TROMs don't show panic or cause for alarm. Now, this could be that their bosses' reputation was riding on the mission and they'd rather die than be the one who pulled the plug. But...

Bad planning doesn't change German attrition. German units there don't have more than a days's worth of ammo and gear. The SS bridge battle didn't happen. The Dutch resistance on the other hand, did eat up a lot of German manpower/effort. Holed-up Brit Para's could have been fully wiped out to the man and Horrocks could have still had enough manpower to reach his "downtown" position. Polish and American units - according to their TROMs likewise, were in a condition to effect the desired outcome. Model could not have held any of the bridges without a major resupply. He had little/no fuel for maneuver which is why your airpower stays on the ground. Its' not needed. Had the MOE been at 90% and had the mission NOT been scrubbed, Horrocks would still have been accepting Model's surrender by nightfall. Would the German units at the other bridges honor it? Why not? They did elsewhere.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
>1 y
LTC Orlando Illi - As a side note, I'm not a Monty lover. WW2 was a money war. Pure and simple. So politics is going to be the blame for most of the allied side's shenanigans and failures.
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