Posted on Apr 27, 2021
DO BLACK PEOPLE ENJOY BEING TOLD THEY ARE WEAK AND DUMB? THE ELECT HOPE SO.
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I am really beginning to enjoy reading Mr. McWhorter's Opinions and Commentaries. He does not pull punches. It's refreshing to see plain talk.
TSgt David L., SPC Randy Zimmerman,
SGT James Murphy, CPT Jack Durish,
PO3 Bob McCord, COL Mikel J. Burroughs,
SPC Gary Welch, SGT Mark Anderson,
CPL Douglas Chrysler, Maj Marty Hogan,
1SG Steven Imerman, SMSgt David A Asbury,
MSgt Robert "Rock" Aldi, MSgt David Hoffman,
SSG Michael Noll, MAJ Dale E. Wilson, Ph.D.
SGM Erik Marquez, CW3 Harvey K.
TSgt David L., SPC Randy Zimmerman,
SGT James Murphy, CPT Jack Durish,
PO3 Bob McCord, COL Mikel J. Burroughs,
SPC Gary Welch, SGT Mark Anderson,
CPL Douglas Chrysler, Maj Marty Hogan,
1SG Steven Imerman, SMSgt David A Asbury,
MSgt Robert "Rock" Aldi, MSgt David Hoffman,
SSG Michael Noll, MAJ Dale E. Wilson, Ph.D.
SGM Erik Marquez, CW3 Harvey K.
DO BLACK PEOPLE ENJOY BEING TOLD THEY ARE WEAK AND DUMB? THE ELECT HOPE SO.
Posted from johnmcwhorter.substack.com
Education
Racism
Psychology
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 4
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What is fascinating about this post is that before me, it seems only white people have commented.
That's a bit odd, don't you think, that only white people have commented on what black people think?
That's a bit odd, don't you think, that only white people have commented on what black people think?
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC Marcus Belt Read all of your convrsation with Sgt Whitmire. I believe it would be beneficial if you could participate in RP to share your experiences & thoughts.
Thanks for taking the time to read my comments.
Thanks for taking the time to read my comments.
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SFC Marcus Belt
SGT (Join to see) - With great respect, you have above-average drive, and you had the oppportunity to "socialize" with people who had constructive rather than destructive, or maladaptive views on work, and prosperity.
So did I.
At one point in my 20s, during my break in service, I worked three jobs at the same time, and when I was younger, I thought: "If I can do it, anyone can."
No. That's not entirely true. Most people can't do that for many different reasons.
"I managed to juggle my Army career. family, church responsibilities and still complete my undergrad with a 3.75 GPA. Anyone can do that!"
No. The circumstances that allowed me to do that are too numerous to mention here, but suffice it to say, that while I did it, I had lots of help.
The help that got me here, where I am, retired ARSOF, disabled combat veteran, was not generally available to my peers in public housing.
And they're mostly still there.
With similar academic performance, black students, particularly black males, are overwhelmingly more likely to be placed in Special Education, and mostly forgotten about, than their White peers. Often, Black people just don't get the same benefit of the doubt, and sometimes, that's all it takes, particularly in the formative years of elementary school education.
Again, very respectfully, black people like me aren't saying that all white people are Bull Connor or George Wallace, nor are we saying there's been no progress. We are simply saying that the easy pickin's have already been worked, and what remains to be done is very, very hard.
And it won't be fixed by saying there's nothing to fix.
So did I.
At one point in my 20s, during my break in service, I worked three jobs at the same time, and when I was younger, I thought: "If I can do it, anyone can."
No. That's not entirely true. Most people can't do that for many different reasons.
"I managed to juggle my Army career. family, church responsibilities and still complete my undergrad with a 3.75 GPA. Anyone can do that!"
No. The circumstances that allowed me to do that are too numerous to mention here, but suffice it to say, that while I did it, I had lots of help.
The help that got me here, where I am, retired ARSOF, disabled combat veteran, was not generally available to my peers in public housing.
And they're mostly still there.
With similar academic performance, black students, particularly black males, are overwhelmingly more likely to be placed in Special Education, and mostly forgotten about, than their White peers. Often, Black people just don't get the same benefit of the doubt, and sometimes, that's all it takes, particularly in the formative years of elementary school education.
Again, very respectfully, black people like me aren't saying that all white people are Bull Connor or George Wallace, nor are we saying there's been no progress. We are simply saying that the easy pickin's have already been worked, and what remains to be done is very, very hard.
And it won't be fixed by saying there's nothing to fix.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC Marcus Belt - I'll consider Your words and reply a little later. There are 2 things that immediately stand out to me; "So did I" and "church responsibilities".
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC Marcus Belt I don't think at any point in our discussion that I have denied the existence of a problem. I have said, I don't believe that it's going to be some Government edict or program that's going to fix it.
on My Socialization and Unequal Treatment based on the Color of one's skin. This anecdote speaks to both. I can think of one time in my life that My being white may have influenced an out come. It was probably the summer of 1974, but My memory is not clear, it may have been 1975. All that I am clear on is that I was not legally old enough to buy Alcohol. But that didn't stop the stores on the Murch from selling to anyone that had the money. A friend and I had decided to find a party. We were both "Longhairs", and gratuitous violence was not unknown to follow us. At that time Northern Cumberland County was Heavily wooded, and the local teens used those woods as gathering places. When We got to a well known spot we headed in. Some one had 'Dozed berms up across the dirt roads. We decided to go elsewhere, but couldn't find a way out. Another vehicle pulled in behind us at one point and blocked us from further movement. An older man jumped out and started making a fuss about Kids on his property. We explained We were trying to leave, then He collapsed, probably a heart attack. We started doing CPR. At this point other members of His family came out of His House, which was much closer than the two of us had known, and started yelling at us to stop beating Him, and that They had called the Sheriff. We informed them to call an ambulance also. It may have been the color of our skin that kept the Deputies from getting violent with us, But I believe it was the actions we were involved in, namely CPR and chest compressions,
we were engaged in when they showed up. Got any idea what doing Mouth-to-Mouth on a corpse will do to Your thought processes. Considering Your past, You might, the rest of the population can't and won't try. My friend and I spent the rest of the night sequestered in separate interrogation rooms at the Cumberland County Sheriff's office waiting on the autopsy, and scared. I'm familiar with Maladaptive. Oh, when the ambulance crew rolled the corpse up to get the board under Him a revolver fell out of His pocket. There was an "Oh shit, He might have shot us", but having a gun in the mix at that point didn't cause any one on scene to faint or scream or comment on repealing the 2A. I don't know if M&O Chevy is still a going concern in Fayetteville, But the man that died that night was either M or O, I don't remember which.
"So did I." Here You state that it was personal drive and fortitude that allowed You to succeed. In this section of Your response, You mention Family and Church Responsibilities. That indicates to Me that You internally recognized that there was more to life than the "Party", That there are some things that are just more important. As a child, the Church I attended was chosen by whatever woman was choosing on any particular Sunday. Before My Mother passed when I was 11. It was the Methodist church. After Her passing My father would occasionally take us to the Post Chapel. When He remarried, My Step-Mother was the type that would go to the one where She could best be "seen". Organized Religion hasn't been a major part of My life. There is no denying that the Nazarene lived, I try My best to live By His 2nd Commandment. That is My Moral Compass, and has been for 30+ years.
You state that there are many problems that can't be overcome, but give no specifics ie. "Most people can't do that for many different reasons.". Is it Personal, Social, or Governmental?
Congratulations for completing Your Undergrad, I never did as it would have moved Me from being the "fixer", to being the "engineer", and I'm a hands-on person. In My MOS an E-7, was still a Lab bench tech. I was filling those slots as an E-4. I got My 1st ARCOM because of demonstrated proficiency as a Lab bench tech. The SQT was still happening while I was active, I never got to take one that covered My real job, because i was filling billets 2 and 3 pay grades ahead of where I was Rank wise. I scored high 90's percentile anyway. The point is I didn't let any one tell Me I wasn't good enough. I was called on the "Carpet" a couple of times because of it. When I was put out I had a good conduct with 3 knots, after 10.5 years. My Commanders Eval for the E-5 board was a 98, the only reason I can think She docked Me 2 is because I was in the front rank at Her incoming change of Command with both My eyes blacked. Got sidetracked, tootin' My own horn.
There is noting at all wrong with asking for and receiving help, as long as that help is used as a springboard to greater things, with the results being the person then going forward and helping others. If a person chooses to not at least attempt to move forward, in this I see a problem. I've never lived in an Urban setting, so I have no frame of reference other than what I See and Read in the news, With My conservative proclivity toward life, You can probably guess what news I would be drawn to. As far as interacting with the Black community, I drove the Elementary Bus,K-6, for University Estates(Behind the Fuel tanks at the intersection of Murchison and Shaw Mill Rd) during the '74-'75 school year. Well, most of the school year, I was expelled after My 2nd alcohol offense and finished the year at a Military Academy in SC, in this aspect I can see where I had an advantage not based on My skin color but in that My Father had funds enough to pay for it. To My knowledge none of the children had an issue with Me, and on more than One occasion, I arrived at Pine Forest with some fine corn rows and braids. Snoop stole His look from Me.
Placing younger Black Males in "Special Ed" and forgetting about them, That is just wrong, in the conception and the action. How did these policies come about, and who is forwarding them? Since it's Public schools being discussed, City Government and the School Board have to be involved somewhere, and I'd dare to say the NEA has a hand in it also. I have a semi-personal story of the injustice in the NEA. It involves an In-Law and is not My story to tell. I alluded to it, yesterday I think on another topic thread.
I can think of another time the color of My skin played a factor. I was hired by an older White Farmer to work With His Tobacco crew. On the 1st Day I realized i was the only White person on the crew that was made up of predominately one Black Family, Grandmother on down. I had the toughest job on the harvester, but because I had the license to drive a school bus I drove the 18speed flatbed truck between the fields and barns and had some say in operations over a family of Black people that were considerably older than I. That the farmer chose Me, a White teen, to drive the truck, would indicate His problem with a family member doing it. Even I could see that. But He paid all of us a very healthy wage, for the hard work we were doing, and the day GrandMa decided it wasn't enough and called a Family strike. The Farmer grumbled, a lot, but we all got raises, with no negative repercussions that I was aware of.
You'll note that on several occasions I mention trouble I got into because of Alcohol and Drugs. I mention those because substance abuse has been a life long problem for Me. The Army reduced My recreational drug use considerably, but didn't stop it. Alcohol and the Military was an accepted thing for a great many years. Once I got MMRB'd and entered the VA Health care system I didn't have to take illegal drugs because the VA gave them to Me. I've been sober for 3+years(Detox is a stone Biotch), and I weaned myself from the VA supplied narcotics a little over a year ago. These are things I decided to do to improve My life in spite of the Government telling Me it was fine to do it, or just looking the other way. I still have to take a pill every day for calm and to sleep, but My choice, I don't walk around with a fuzzy brain everyday. That is why I say it's not going to be something the Government does, as far as I see DC's interference hurts a lot more than it helps. It's about individual personal choices and what leads to them. And, there were many times in My life I made bad ones and was lucky enough not to die because of them.
on My Socialization and Unequal Treatment based on the Color of one's skin. This anecdote speaks to both. I can think of one time in my life that My being white may have influenced an out come. It was probably the summer of 1974, but My memory is not clear, it may have been 1975. All that I am clear on is that I was not legally old enough to buy Alcohol. But that didn't stop the stores on the Murch from selling to anyone that had the money. A friend and I had decided to find a party. We were both "Longhairs", and gratuitous violence was not unknown to follow us. At that time Northern Cumberland County was Heavily wooded, and the local teens used those woods as gathering places. When We got to a well known spot we headed in. Some one had 'Dozed berms up across the dirt roads. We decided to go elsewhere, but couldn't find a way out. Another vehicle pulled in behind us at one point and blocked us from further movement. An older man jumped out and started making a fuss about Kids on his property. We explained We were trying to leave, then He collapsed, probably a heart attack. We started doing CPR. At this point other members of His family came out of His House, which was much closer than the two of us had known, and started yelling at us to stop beating Him, and that They had called the Sheriff. We informed them to call an ambulance also. It may have been the color of our skin that kept the Deputies from getting violent with us, But I believe it was the actions we were involved in, namely CPR and chest compressions,
we were engaged in when they showed up. Got any idea what doing Mouth-to-Mouth on a corpse will do to Your thought processes. Considering Your past, You might, the rest of the population can't and won't try. My friend and I spent the rest of the night sequestered in separate interrogation rooms at the Cumberland County Sheriff's office waiting on the autopsy, and scared. I'm familiar with Maladaptive. Oh, when the ambulance crew rolled the corpse up to get the board under Him a revolver fell out of His pocket. There was an "Oh shit, He might have shot us", but having a gun in the mix at that point didn't cause any one on scene to faint or scream or comment on repealing the 2A. I don't know if M&O Chevy is still a going concern in Fayetteville, But the man that died that night was either M or O, I don't remember which.
"So did I." Here You state that it was personal drive and fortitude that allowed You to succeed. In this section of Your response, You mention Family and Church Responsibilities. That indicates to Me that You internally recognized that there was more to life than the "Party", That there are some things that are just more important. As a child, the Church I attended was chosen by whatever woman was choosing on any particular Sunday. Before My Mother passed when I was 11. It was the Methodist church. After Her passing My father would occasionally take us to the Post Chapel. When He remarried, My Step-Mother was the type that would go to the one where She could best be "seen". Organized Religion hasn't been a major part of My life. There is no denying that the Nazarene lived, I try My best to live By His 2nd Commandment. That is My Moral Compass, and has been for 30+ years.
You state that there are many problems that can't be overcome, but give no specifics ie. "Most people can't do that for many different reasons.". Is it Personal, Social, or Governmental?
Congratulations for completing Your Undergrad, I never did as it would have moved Me from being the "fixer", to being the "engineer", and I'm a hands-on person. In My MOS an E-7, was still a Lab bench tech. I was filling those slots as an E-4. I got My 1st ARCOM because of demonstrated proficiency as a Lab bench tech. The SQT was still happening while I was active, I never got to take one that covered My real job, because i was filling billets 2 and 3 pay grades ahead of where I was Rank wise. I scored high 90's percentile anyway. The point is I didn't let any one tell Me I wasn't good enough. I was called on the "Carpet" a couple of times because of it. When I was put out I had a good conduct with 3 knots, after 10.5 years. My Commanders Eval for the E-5 board was a 98, the only reason I can think She docked Me 2 is because I was in the front rank at Her incoming change of Command with both My eyes blacked. Got sidetracked, tootin' My own horn.
There is noting at all wrong with asking for and receiving help, as long as that help is used as a springboard to greater things, with the results being the person then going forward and helping others. If a person chooses to not at least attempt to move forward, in this I see a problem. I've never lived in an Urban setting, so I have no frame of reference other than what I See and Read in the news, With My conservative proclivity toward life, You can probably guess what news I would be drawn to. As far as interacting with the Black community, I drove the Elementary Bus,K-6, for University Estates(Behind the Fuel tanks at the intersection of Murchison and Shaw Mill Rd) during the '74-'75 school year. Well, most of the school year, I was expelled after My 2nd alcohol offense and finished the year at a Military Academy in SC, in this aspect I can see where I had an advantage not based on My skin color but in that My Father had funds enough to pay for it. To My knowledge none of the children had an issue with Me, and on more than One occasion, I arrived at Pine Forest with some fine corn rows and braids. Snoop stole His look from Me.
Placing younger Black Males in "Special Ed" and forgetting about them, That is just wrong, in the conception and the action. How did these policies come about, and who is forwarding them? Since it's Public schools being discussed, City Government and the School Board have to be involved somewhere, and I'd dare to say the NEA has a hand in it also. I have a semi-personal story of the injustice in the NEA. It involves an In-Law and is not My story to tell. I alluded to it, yesterday I think on another topic thread.
I can think of another time the color of My skin played a factor. I was hired by an older White Farmer to work With His Tobacco crew. On the 1st Day I realized i was the only White person on the crew that was made up of predominately one Black Family, Grandmother on down. I had the toughest job on the harvester, but because I had the license to drive a school bus I drove the 18speed flatbed truck between the fields and barns and had some say in operations over a family of Black people that were considerably older than I. That the farmer chose Me, a White teen, to drive the truck, would indicate His problem with a family member doing it. Even I could see that. But He paid all of us a very healthy wage, for the hard work we were doing, and the day GrandMa decided it wasn't enough and called a Family strike. The Farmer grumbled, a lot, but we all got raises, with no negative repercussions that I was aware of.
You'll note that on several occasions I mention trouble I got into because of Alcohol and Drugs. I mention those because substance abuse has been a life long problem for Me. The Army reduced My recreational drug use considerably, but didn't stop it. Alcohol and the Military was an accepted thing for a great many years. Once I got MMRB'd and entered the VA Health care system I didn't have to take illegal drugs because the VA gave them to Me. I've been sober for 3+years(Detox is a stone Biotch), and I weaned myself from the VA supplied narcotics a little over a year ago. These are things I decided to do to improve My life in spite of the Government telling Me it was fine to do it, or just looking the other way. I still have to take a pill every day for calm and to sleep, but My choice, I don't walk around with a fuzzy brain everyday. That is why I say it's not going to be something the Government does, as far as I see DC's interference hurts a lot more than it helps. It's about individual personal choices and what leads to them. And, there were many times in My life I made bad ones and was lucky enough not to die because of them.
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