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Looks like DIE does not define inclusion to include people of faith.
The US Navy has a religion problem
Posted from washingtonexaminer.com
Religion
DoD
Navy SEALs
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 3
3
3
0
This is true Progressive Marxist Democrat actions to advance their agenda. Change the rules so the rules can't be followed, and then when everything fails the same Progressive Marxist Democrats can install their woke system that is a step closer to Communism.
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MSG Thomas Currie
I agree, but perhaps not in the way you think.
Yes, this is a "Progressive Marxist Democrat" attack by creating rules that cannot be followed -- but the attack is not by denying religious exemptions so much as by demanding the each and every individual in the military has their own unique religion and that each individual religion has whatever unique beliefs that individual chooses to espouse and that those beliefs can change with whatever whim strikes the individual at any moment.
Yes, this is a "Progressive Marxist Democrat" attack by creating rules that cannot be followed -- but the attack is not by denying religious exemptions so much as by demanding the each and every individual in the military has their own unique religion and that each individual religion has whatever unique beliefs that individual chooses to espouse and that those beliefs can change with whatever whim strikes the individual at any moment.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG Thomas Currie - Basically what you're saying is there is no religion/code to live by because it can change at a whim. Think of running/operating a military with no code or lineage.
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MSG Thomas Currie
SFC (Join to see) - That's exactly my point -- once you say that every individual is entitled to make up their own "religion" with whatever tenets they choose at any particular moment and that all these "religions" deserve equal respect and full accommodation what you have is chaos. (Which is what we are already starting to see now).
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Amazing the number of people who have suddenly discovered that their religion objects to this particular vaccine although neither the individual or their religion has objected to any of the numerous other vaccines they had taken.
I too would be suspicious of the large number of sudden conversions and sudden discovery of deeply held religious convictions that were specific to a single particular mandate.
We have long had a variety of "Religious Exemptions" available in all the services - but until now those exemptions have been based on established doctrines of religions with a significant membership. Yes, I understand the problem of someone deciding which religions are "real" and which are not, but the situation has become ridiculous. We have military members whose ID tags show their religion as "Druid" and others whose religion is listed as "Jedi" etc. Just as people can now be "ordained" simply by entering their name on any of several websites, we have a situation where "religion" no longer has any meaning other than a joke or a convenient excuse.
On the other hand, once the navy approves a waiver for whatever reason, everyone with the waiver should be treated identically.
I too would be suspicious of the large number of sudden conversions and sudden discovery of deeply held religious convictions that were specific to a single particular mandate.
We have long had a variety of "Religious Exemptions" available in all the services - but until now those exemptions have been based on established doctrines of religions with a significant membership. Yes, I understand the problem of someone deciding which religions are "real" and which are not, but the situation has become ridiculous. We have military members whose ID tags show their religion as "Druid" and others whose religion is listed as "Jedi" etc. Just as people can now be "ordained" simply by entering their name on any of several websites, we have a situation where "religion" no longer has any meaning other than a joke or a convenient excuse.
On the other hand, once the navy approves a waiver for whatever reason, everyone with the waiver should be treated identically.
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CWO4 Terrence Clark
As a stand alone issue, your argument has merit. As yet another straw on the camel's back, to include displays including the Bible being removed from VA hosp., pressure on chaplains, particularly Christian, and so on, it is a two antenna alert.
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Not seeing where the sailors' right to practice their religion and faith are being violated. And one has to ask, did those sailors got vaccinated for other diseases and bio threats like anthrax? Or did they claim religious exemption then? Thanks for the absurd argument.
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MSG Thomas Currie
CWO4 Terrence Clark - "we are deeply, deeply troubled by having any connection to the murder of innocent children and benefited from their murder."
Are you equally troubled by lower taxes you pay as a result of all the eliminated welfare costs for all those murdered innocent children? Linking the COVID vaccines to abortion is perfectly reasonable, but only if you also link all the other related factors. This isn't just a butterfly effect argument, there are many aspects of everyone's daily lives that have at least some tenuous link to just about every area of research and every government policy.
Are you equally troubled by lower taxes you pay as a result of all the eliminated welfare costs for all those murdered innocent children? Linking the COVID vaccines to abortion is perfectly reasonable, but only if you also link all the other related factors. This isn't just a butterfly effect argument, there are many aspects of everyone's daily lives that have at least some tenuous link to just about every area of research and every government policy.
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CWO4 Terrence Clark
MSG Thomas Currie Every morning as I put my feet flat on the deck, I know that navigating my way through this secular society will be a struggle seething with contradictions.
Consoling ones' self by celebrating lower taxes (assuming that to be the case) through de-valuing the life of children is not a position to be celebrated. I will not even qualify that with the ubiquitous IMHO. There are many things in our Democratic Republic with which I disagree. Others may differ. One takes ones stand where one may. Which is why activists of many stripes exist.
Consoling ones' self by celebrating lower taxes (assuming that to be the case) through de-valuing the life of children is not a position to be celebrated. I will not even qualify that with the ubiquitous IMHO. There are many things in our Democratic Republic with which I disagree. Others may differ. One takes ones stand where one may. Which is why activists of many stripes exist.
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MAJ James Woods
CWO4 Terrence Clark Lets start with antipathy towards people of faith; non-Christians, Agnostics, and Atheists in the military can gladly give you examples of being mistreated by the Christian oriented military and government so spare me the hyperbole that a few sailors can't get a religious exception for one vaccine mandate. It's not an attack on their religious freedoms and I'm still curious if they abided by the other immunization mandates our military and government had. Or this just about COVID.
Second, yes i know a few folks that has lingering mild side effects from one of the vaccines. I know far more people with more severe side effects from being unvaccinated and contracted COVID. It's all about percentages of risk mitigation and being vaccinated had lower risks. Same hyperbole for other vaccinces and diseases.
"The murder of innocent children"? Is this antivax propaganda? There's documented more deaths from the disease than from the vaccine.
Second, yes i know a few folks that has lingering mild side effects from one of the vaccines. I know far more people with more severe side effects from being unvaccinated and contracted COVID. It's all about percentages of risk mitigation and being vaccinated had lower risks. Same hyperbole for other vaccinces and diseases.
"The murder of innocent children"? Is this antivax propaganda? There's documented more deaths from the disease than from the vaccine.
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CWO4 Terrence Clark
MAJ James Woods
As advertised, sometimes we are going to agree, sometimes not. This is a not time.
You mentioned anthrax. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2021/06/17/troops-who-refused-anthrax-vaccine-paid-a-high-price/
At no point in these discussions has any respondant exhorted another not to get the vax. Nor in any of the multitudes of other related discussions on this forum. The issue is always personal freedom and opposition to government mandates. To this day, the various Chinese Flu (Covid for China apologists) vax are experimental, as was anthrax vax until recently. And, we now have voluminous data to support what was apparent a year ago - that is, the vax only offers protection to the recipient and that protection is only therapeutic.
Very interested in any data you have to the effect of atheists in the military being discriminated against. Apparently, you have no moral qualms about murdering children and harvesting their parts. A hypothetical question (because we know the answer) if this or any other vax was derived from swine parts or swine stem cell research, would the government take the same hardline approach to Jews and Muslims refusing the vax?
As advertised, sometimes we are going to agree, sometimes not. This is a not time.
You mentioned anthrax. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2021/06/17/troops-who-refused-anthrax-vaccine-paid-a-high-price/
At no point in these discussions has any respondant exhorted another not to get the vax. Nor in any of the multitudes of other related discussions on this forum. The issue is always personal freedom and opposition to government mandates. To this day, the various Chinese Flu (Covid for China apologists) vax are experimental, as was anthrax vax until recently. And, we now have voluminous data to support what was apparent a year ago - that is, the vax only offers protection to the recipient and that protection is only therapeutic.
Very interested in any data you have to the effect of atheists in the military being discriminated against. Apparently, you have no moral qualms about murdering children and harvesting their parts. A hypothetical question (because we know the answer) if this or any other vax was derived from swine parts or swine stem cell research, would the government take the same hardline approach to Jews and Muslims refusing the vax?
Troops who refused anthrax vaccine paid a high price
An unknown fraction of service members who were punished for refusing the anthrax vaccine in the late 1990s and early 2000s have sought to have their records corrected, but only a few have had success.
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