Posted on Dec 5, 2022
Florida deputy killed after officer roommate 'jokingly' fires gun he thought was unloaded,...
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"A 23-year-old Florida sheriff’s deputy was fatally shot by his fellow deputy roommate over the weekend, in what the sheriff described as a “clearly dumb and avoidable accident.”
Florida deputy killed after officer roommate 'jokingly' fires gun he thought was unloaded,...
Posted from nbcnews.com
Sheriff
Firearms and Guns
Safety
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 11
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Even law enforcement officers fail to exercise safe operation of their weapons!
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MSG Thomas Currie
MSG Joseph Cristofaro - You seem to have been an instructor at the only department I have ever heard of with such a policy -- Was it the Mayberry PD? Or perhaps your definition of "legally necessary" includes instances of "it's dark in there" or "dispatch said 'unknown trouble call'" or "OMG there are two people here and I'm alone" or just "I need to wave my magic wand around to make sure everyone knows who's in charge"
I am NOT saying that all officers act that way, but far too many do (of course even one would be one too many).
My point about training wasn't that officers are taught to do stupid things with firearms but that Firearms Safety is not adequately taught in police training courses -- instead most departments do the same thing the military does, by running live fire under conditions that are meant to be safe in spite of the shooters instead of teaching the shooters to BE safe.
I am NOT saying that all officers act that way, but far too many do (of course even one would be one too many).
My point about training wasn't that officers are taught to do stupid things with firearms but that Firearms Safety is not adequately taught in police training courses -- instead most departments do the same thing the military does, by running live fire under conditions that are meant to be safe in spite of the shooters instead of teaching the shooters to BE safe.
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MSG Thomas Currie
MSG Joseph Cristofaro - You said "First, the police are not the military. Police don't normally conduct live fire exercises" Perhaps the lack of live fire during range training accounts for the abysmal marksmanship of many officers -- or perhaps you now resent me deliberately misinterpreting your comment the way you deliberately misinterpreted mine!
Yes force-on-force style live fire is done with simunitions -- except, of course, in the well publicized instance where an officer attended the morning session, went to lunch, returned for the afternoon session, and forgot to exchange his service weapon for a simunition weapon, and proceeded to shoot a fellow officer. There have been at least two similar instances in recent years. There are also numerous incidents of officers presenting "firearms safety training" to civilians and having a negligent discharge (several of which have resulted in random people being shot), and the more recent instance of a department conducting training in a school with a negligent discharge fired through a wall into an occupied classroom. Or the 2018 incident with the break dancing FBI agent, who was only charged with third-degree assault for negligently shooting a civilian (and who was only charged at all after the video of his negligent discharge went viral online - initially the local PD gave him a free pass)
These are just a few of the more obvious failures...
https://www.deseret.com/2016/8/11/20492617/police-real-ammo-used-by-mistake-in-fatal-training-exercise
https://theparadise.ng/tx-cop-shot-in-face-during-active-shooter-training-at-school-with-live-round/
https://www.fox4news.com/news/officer-shot-active-shooter-training-forest-hill
Bottom line: the level of firearms safety training given to police officers is generally not adequate for the responsibility that should be expected.
Yes force-on-force style live fire is done with simunitions -- except, of course, in the well publicized instance where an officer attended the morning session, went to lunch, returned for the afternoon session, and forgot to exchange his service weapon for a simunition weapon, and proceeded to shoot a fellow officer. There have been at least two similar instances in recent years. There are also numerous incidents of officers presenting "firearms safety training" to civilians and having a negligent discharge (several of which have resulted in random people being shot), and the more recent instance of a department conducting training in a school with a negligent discharge fired through a wall into an occupied classroom. Or the 2018 incident with the break dancing FBI agent, who was only charged with third-degree assault for negligently shooting a civilian (and who was only charged at all after the video of his negligent discharge went viral online - initially the local PD gave him a free pass)
These are just a few of the more obvious failures...
https://www.deseret.com/2016/8/11/20492617/police-real-ammo-used-by-mistake-in-fatal-training-exercise
https://theparadise.ng/tx-cop-shot-in-face-during-active-shooter-training-at-school-with-live-round/
https://www.fox4news.com/news/officer-shot-active-shooter-training-forest-hill
Bottom line: the level of firearms safety training given to police officers is generally not adequate for the responsibility that should be expected.
Police: Real ammo used by mistake in fatal training exercise
The officer who shot and killed a 73-year-old retired librarian during a police "shoot/don't shoot" demonstration in Florida was accused of using excessive force with his police dog and resigned from another police agency in 2013 for failing to satisfactorily complete an agency field training…
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MSG Thomas Currie
MSG Joseph Cristofaro - You just keep repeating the litany that The Blue can do no wrong.
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I learned at a very young age, and I have taught my daughter and my some of my family members that weapons are always loaded...no matter how many times you check them you always assume they are loaded, period and should be treated as such. He is a cop; he should have known better...manslaughter should be the charge.
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CPT (Join to see)
The charge could also be 'accidental homicide' :
"Accidental homicide is where you kill someone in the course of a lawful act that is done with a reasonable belief that no harm will take place. Most jurisdictions say that an accidental killing is not a crime.
However, you could face criminal charges if you killed someone on accident while performing an unlawful or negligent act. Most states say that this type of killing amounts to involuntary manslaughter.
Involuntary manslaughter is often confused with voluntary manslaughter. While similar, these are two distinct crimes." June 19 2022 by Neil Shouse
A former Los Angeles prosecutor, attorney Neil Shouse graduated with honors from UC Berkeley and Harvard Law School (and completed additional graduate studies at MIT).
"Accidental homicide is where you kill someone in the course of a lawful act that is done with a reasonable belief that no harm will take place. Most jurisdictions say that an accidental killing is not a crime.
However, you could face criminal charges if you killed someone on accident while performing an unlawful or negligent act. Most states say that this type of killing amounts to involuntary manslaughter.
Involuntary manslaughter is often confused with voluntary manslaughter. While similar, these are two distinct crimes." June 19 2022 by Neil Shouse
A former Los Angeles prosecutor, attorney Neil Shouse graduated with honors from UC Berkeley and Harvard Law School (and completed additional graduate studies at MIT).
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
CPT (Join to see) - I believe it was an accident but having been a properly trained cop, this should be involuntary manslaughter.
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MSG Thomas Currie
CPT (Join to see) - This was not " a lawful act that is done with a reasonable belief that no harm will take place" -- even if we believe the shooter, it was at best gross negligence.
Apparently that crime is called "Manslaughter" in Florida. The name varies from state to state, but the act described is still a crime.
Apparently that crime is called "Manslaughter" in Florida. The name varies from state to state, but the act described is still a crime.
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CPT (Join to see)
MSG Thomas Currie - Our opinions don't matter anyway. The prosecutor for the jurisdiction will file the charges.
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