Posted on Nov 15, 2023
It’s Time to Ukrainify US Military Assistance - Modern War Institute
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We have a bad habit of trying to get others to fight like us... and it has not worked out well for us when we do.
It’s Time to Ukrainify US Military Assistance - Modern War Institute
Posted from mwi.westpoint.edu
Warfare
Ukraine
Training
Leadership Development
Posted 6 mo ago
Responses: 2
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LTC Eric Udouj
..."The United States poured vast military resources into Afghanistan and Iraq. We made a rookie mistake. We imagined that the American way of war is universal. After two decades of such naïveté, let’s not make the same mistake in Ukraine. It is more productive to assist Ukrainians to fight the war they have, not the war we might want or hope they’ll have at a later time."
..."The United States poured vast military resources into Afghanistan and Iraq. We made a rookie mistake. We imagined that the American way of war is universal. After two decades of such naïveté, let’s not make the same mistake in Ukraine. It is more productive to assist Ukrainians to fight the war they have, not the war we might want or hope they’ll have at a later time."
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A response from an old Cold War Warrior.
1. The rebuilding of the US Military after the end of the Vietnam and the Draft until the US Military that so dominated the Battlefield during Desert Storm took 15 years of hard training from squad to Army level to produce those results. Ukraine has had six years to start from an almost non-existent National Army, the last two while trying to fight a war.
2. The US Military has spent the last 20 years fighting goat herders and training to fight near peer opponents has gone to Hell. Most of us Cold War guys recognized the Russian's defensive plan as the modern version of the Soviet era defenses. I think we should give the Russians credit for how fast they were able to adapt new technology to their defensive strategy and American Officers would be smart to study their methods as the probable road to the future.
3. None of the Ukrainian tactics have impressed me much. The strongpoint defenses of the various cities have been suicidal and, as noted in the story, attacks against the in-depth defenses without at least Air Parity or parity of artillery have just been slaughters.
4. The US no longer has the large technological advantage on the battlefield. The Javalin and Stinger are at least Gulf War old, the Bradley was fielded while I was in Basic Training. The one thing that should be clear in this conflict is that technology has to be integrated with tactics and strategy.
5. We need to learn how to pick better friends and mind our own business. We encouraged Ukraine to revolt against the Pro Russian regime without considering that about a 1/3rd of the country is Ethnic Russian, not to mention way too many Neo Nazis among the Ukrainian Nationalist.
6. My last point is that Ukraine chose to take on a country that has a relatively modern industrial base and it 10 times the size and population.
1. The rebuilding of the US Military after the end of the Vietnam and the Draft until the US Military that so dominated the Battlefield during Desert Storm took 15 years of hard training from squad to Army level to produce those results. Ukraine has had six years to start from an almost non-existent National Army, the last two while trying to fight a war.
2. The US Military has spent the last 20 years fighting goat herders and training to fight near peer opponents has gone to Hell. Most of us Cold War guys recognized the Russian's defensive plan as the modern version of the Soviet era defenses. I think we should give the Russians credit for how fast they were able to adapt new technology to their defensive strategy and American Officers would be smart to study their methods as the probable road to the future.
3. None of the Ukrainian tactics have impressed me much. The strongpoint defenses of the various cities have been suicidal and, as noted in the story, attacks against the in-depth defenses without at least Air Parity or parity of artillery have just been slaughters.
4. The US no longer has the large technological advantage on the battlefield. The Javalin and Stinger are at least Gulf War old, the Bradley was fielded while I was in Basic Training. The one thing that should be clear in this conflict is that technology has to be integrated with tactics and strategy.
5. We need to learn how to pick better friends and mind our own business. We encouraged Ukraine to revolt against the Pro Russian regime without considering that about a 1/3rd of the country is Ethnic Russian, not to mention way too many Neo Nazis among the Ukrainian Nationalist.
6. My last point is that Ukraine chose to take on a country that has a relatively modern industrial base and it 10 times the size and population.
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LTC Eugene Chu
I agree with first three and have rebuttals to last three of your points…
4. Giving old ammo and equipment to Ukraine is helpful for both them and us. It costs money to store or decommission old inventory. Ukraine using it against Russia is win-win by saving us money and showing support.
5. Ukraine did not revolt. USSR collapsed and it peacefully left since it no longer wanted to be part of a failed union. Neo-Nazi comparison is BS based on Russian Wagner co-founder and Zelensky of Ukraine being Jewish.
6. Ukraine did not choose to take on a bigger country. Russia invaded based on Putin’s small man syndrome.
4. Giving old ammo and equipment to Ukraine is helpful for both them and us. It costs money to store or decommission old inventory. Ukraine using it against Russia is win-win by saving us money and showing support.
5. Ukraine did not revolt. USSR collapsed and it peacefully left since it no longer wanted to be part of a failed union. Neo-Nazi comparison is BS based on Russian Wagner co-founder and Zelensky of Ukraine being Jewish.
6. Ukraine did not choose to take on a bigger country. Russia invaded based on Putin’s small man syndrome.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
LTC Eugene Chu - And I respond.
4. Giving Ukraine outdated weapons systems got them killed,
5. Learn the history of the area. The Ukrainian nationalist staged a coup against the sitting and elected pro-Russian government, in 2014. See Maiden Revolution. That was After the 2004 Orange Revolution. Your failure to recognize that Right Sector and Azov Brigade are Neo Nazi is just denial. Read Western Sources before 2014 on the subject. Kolomoisky is Jewish too, and he was one of the major financial supporters of Azov Brigade.
5-a. The results of the Maiden Revolution were the cause of the breakaway of Donbas, Luhansk, and the Crimea after the Ukrainians started things like banning the Russian Language. The Militia assaults on the Russian Ethnic Areas lead to the first Russian intervention and the Minsk Agreement.
6. Ukraine absolutely did make the decision to take on a bigger country. They repeatedly violated the Minsk Agreement and Right Sector and Azov fired thousands of Artillery rounds into the Breakaway Oblast in spite of the Agreement.
4. Giving Ukraine outdated weapons systems got them killed,
5. Learn the history of the area. The Ukrainian nationalist staged a coup against the sitting and elected pro-Russian government, in 2014. See Maiden Revolution. That was After the 2004 Orange Revolution. Your failure to recognize that Right Sector and Azov Brigade are Neo Nazi is just denial. Read Western Sources before 2014 on the subject. Kolomoisky is Jewish too, and he was one of the major financial supporters of Azov Brigade.
5-a. The results of the Maiden Revolution were the cause of the breakaway of Donbas, Luhansk, and the Crimea after the Ukrainians started things like banning the Russian Language. The Militia assaults on the Russian Ethnic Areas lead to the first Russian intervention and the Minsk Agreement.
6. Ukraine absolutely did make the decision to take on a bigger country. They repeatedly violated the Minsk Agreement and Right Sector and Azov fired thousands of Artillery rounds into the Breakaway Oblast in spite of the Agreement.
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