752 reactions · 1K shares | George A Peterson on Reels

LTC Kevin B. - Why have you changed from "Republican" to "conservative" in your assertions? Is this an admission of a flaw within your initial assertion? Are the elements of Obamacare a GOP invention or not?

First let's agree on the Obamacare modifications to the existing insurance-based [healthcare] system. Hereafter referred to as "modifications."
A - Expansion of Medicaid to qualifying (read as low-income below 138% of federal poverty level) adults without children
B - Health insurance exchange markets through which individuals can purchase coverage and receive financial help to afford premiums and cost sharing
C - Monetary penalties for that do not offer affordable healthcare coverage

[Definition: Risk Selection - Insurers avoid enrolling people who are in worse health and likely to require costly medical care this is done by charging premiums based on health status, limiting drug formularies outside of high premium plans.]

D - Prohibits health plans from using "risk selection" denying people coverage, charging them higher premiums, as well as rescinding or imposing exclusions to coverage due to preexisting health conditions
E - Requires most health plans to cover preventive health services with no out-of-pocket costs
F - Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) provision of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) limits the amount of premium income that insurers can keep for administration, marketing, and profits. Insurers that fail to meet the applicable MLR threshold are required to pay back excess profits or margins in the form of rebates to individuals and employers that purchased coverage.
G - People with private coverage can keep their young adult children on their health plan up to age 26.
H - Individual and small group markets can only vary premiums based on location, family size, tobacco use, and age (with older adults being charged no more than three times younger adults

[Definition: Adverse Selection - people to wait until they are sick to purchase insurance. Adverse selection creates a condition that makes it more difficult for insurers to calculate risks and de-stabilizes the market]

I - Creation of enrollment windows, mandating participation, subsidizing premiums in order to stop consumers from choosing adverse selection.

Are there any modifications I have left out?
Are there any modifications left out which you can agree were not conceptualized by Republicans, the GOP, or conservatives.

Out of hand I refuse to accept the following name from your list: Mitt Romney, I addressed this previously.
1) a previous registered Democrat who changed his party affiliation in order to challenge a vulnerable Democrat incumbent (Senator Ted Kennedy)
2) a self-identified progressive. Governor Romney said he was "not a partisan Republican" but rather a "moderate" with "progressive" views. Progressives are not conservatives.

For all of the others on your list, I will agree that they are Republicans and conservatives.

I will not agree to any evidence that they conceptualized any of the "modifications" that they conceptualized if your assertions are based on ideas they conceptualized and/or pushed in efforts to repeal Obamacare or were elements reluctant acceptance that they were going to have to live with some of the elements of Obamacare. Because I cede something in a negotiation doesn't mean I conceptualized it or pushed for it.

Please include dates and citations. If you want to seal the deal, show that the conceptualization was prior to "Hillarycare" in 1993 and/or President Obama's conceptual unveiling his intended healthcare reform was in June of 2009. That date is important to me in your offerings of evidence.

I'm still waiting on the bill you "showed me." Show me again please. If you did it once, it should be difficult to do it again.

Maj John Bell - Republicans and conservatives are one in the same. Are there some Republicans who aren't conservative? Sure. Are there some conservatives who are not Republicans? Sure. However, those two groups overlap significantly to the point where your attempts to parse them out as being different fall flat. You're quibbling at the margins. Likewise, I'll agree that the groups have evolved over time. However, that still doesn't change the fact that Republicans and conservatives move together, but like Democrats and liberals. You're quibbling over a minor point and trying to use my phrasing as a means to undermine my broader points that the main ideas of Obamacare were Republican AND conservative ideas. I realize you don't believe it, and I realize you don't want to be convinced, but that mindset will never change the fact that many major components of the PPACA are indeed ideas that were developed on the political right, were pushed by people on the political right, and were first implemented by someone on the political right, who also happened to become a Presidential nominee representing the political right.

Now, to your question, yes there are components of the PPACA that were not conservative ideas. However, that doesn't change the fact that the primary components of the PPACA were indeed conservative ideas. I never said that ALL of the PPACA grew out of conservative and/or Republican ideology. I just said that the main components were, and that is the painful truth.

The Heritage plan by Butler was released in 1989, prior to HillaryCare. You and I both provided that link.

The Health Equity and Access Reform Today (HEART) Act of 1993 was the GOP alternative to HillaryCare. It was based on the Heritage Plan designed by Stuart Butler.

https://kffhealthnews.org/news/gop-1993-health-reform-bill/

https://washingtonspectator.org/how-to-get-republicans-to-support-the-affordable-care-act/#.V2X9DpMrKRs

This bill included vouchers (subsidies), a universal coverage requirement (an individual mandate), and established State-based exchanges/purchasing groups (insurance markets). Those items were in the Heritage Plan (1989) prior to HillaryCare, and the GOP embraced them as an alternative to HillaryCare (1993). Romney included them in RomneyCare (2006), and Obama included them in the PPACA (2010).

Lastly, I never said that Republicans supported Obamacare. Clearly they all voted aginst it and have tried repeatedly to undermine it and repeal it. I did say that they supported the primary components that are within Obamacare (mandate, exchanges, and subsidies). They developed those ideas, pushed those ideas, and first implemented those ideas, but they abandoned them once Obama put his name on their ideas.

LTC Kevin B. - Once again you've offered an unresponsive response.

Are there any modifications I have left out?
Are there any modifications left out which you can agree were not conceptualized by Republicans, the GOP, or conservatives.

I prefer to not spend my time researching for a debate on items which there is no debate. I made it easy. Just type out the letter of the letter of the alphabet which you believe was A healthcare insurance reform conceptualized and pushed by Republicans in the legislature.

Maj John Bell - I see the debating game you seem to be trying to play, and you're doing nothing more than wasting time stating unrelated points, attributing things I did not say, going on tangents, and/or continuously calling for ever-precise evidence. I've stated my position, and I've more than backed it up with clear evidence, and I've reiterated it you multiple times. You just refuse to see it, or you're refusing to admit it, and/or you're being deliberately antagonistic. Have fun with that.