Posted on Jan 19, 2018
After Collisions, Lawmaker Presses Navy to Specialize Surface Forces
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Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 6
I have talked on here and other places, that the surface Navy needs to de a bridge LDO program like in the article. I served with quite a dew foreign surface officers, and every one of them was better than we were at ship maneuvering. We'll see... it is just sad that so many people at many different levels have been screaming for change, and the big brass only listens when sailors are dead and the PR is bad...
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"I am concerned that as our ships become more technically challenging to operate, our surface warfare community has retained a generalist preference that contributes to the surface warfare malaise," said Wittman, a Virginia Republican.
"I think it is time that we adopt specialists similar to the aviation community and foreign navies," he said. "We should require surface warfare officers to specialize in deck or engineering and allow needed junior officers time to develop basic skills."
Pardon me, but this sounds like a namby-pamby line of bullsh*t coming from someone who doesn't understand military life or who is somehow looking to make his political mark on the subject.
This statement says absolutely nothing in pretty words.
The line between "specialization" and "generalization" isn't always clear, and even when it is there are ALWAYS "generalizations" in the military.
The Marines have it, in spades...EVERY MARINE IS A RIFLEMAN. That's a huge generalization which overlays all the specializations.
Nuclear trained personnel on submarines may be specialists, but they're also trained in a wide variety of other things as well. Ask submarine nuclear electricians about what happens when the Section Tracking Party is stationed. Ask nukes in general, in fact, what happens in any number of scenarios. Fire or flooding anywhere on the ship. Manning the bridge during transits on the surface. Taking local control of the ship's rudder and stern planes and steering the ship. Qualifying Chief of the Watch or Diving Officer. Qualifying ship's diver. Any number of collateral duties.
In fact, ask any qualified Submariner what those dolphins on his/her chest means.
People need to wake up, learn and do their jobs properly and with the respect due to their role.
If one is not cut out for it, then leave the Navy, or at least move on to something else within the Navy. There is no shame in this...the shame is forcing oneself to continue in a role for which one is not suited.
The military is not suitable for everybody, and everybody is not suited for the military.
"I think it is time that we adopt specialists similar to the aviation community and foreign navies," he said. "We should require surface warfare officers to specialize in deck or engineering and allow needed junior officers time to develop basic skills."
Pardon me, but this sounds like a namby-pamby line of bullsh*t coming from someone who doesn't understand military life or who is somehow looking to make his political mark on the subject.
This statement says absolutely nothing in pretty words.
The line between "specialization" and "generalization" isn't always clear, and even when it is there are ALWAYS "generalizations" in the military.
The Marines have it, in spades...EVERY MARINE IS A RIFLEMAN. That's a huge generalization which overlays all the specializations.
Nuclear trained personnel on submarines may be specialists, but they're also trained in a wide variety of other things as well. Ask submarine nuclear electricians about what happens when the Section Tracking Party is stationed. Ask nukes in general, in fact, what happens in any number of scenarios. Fire or flooding anywhere on the ship. Manning the bridge during transits on the surface. Taking local control of the ship's rudder and stern planes and steering the ship. Qualifying Chief of the Watch or Diving Officer. Qualifying ship's diver. Any number of collateral duties.
In fact, ask any qualified Submariner what those dolphins on his/her chest means.
People need to wake up, learn and do their jobs properly and with the respect due to their role.
If one is not cut out for it, then leave the Navy, or at least move on to something else within the Navy. There is no shame in this...the shame is forcing oneself to continue in a role for which one is not suited.
The military is not suitable for everybody, and everybody is not suited for the military.
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PO1 Tony Holland LT Brad McInnis 35 years ago, I requested to earn my SWO Pin as a CWO, I was told it is not required of Warrants. I told them I wanted to do that anyway and the CO Granted permission for me to proceed. I was issued about 5 booklets covering every subject that I needed to get proficient in and show that proficiency multiple times in some cases. Those subject booklets included Combat systems, Engineering, Damage Control, Division Officer, and OOD (in this book it also included a log book of my watches as JOOD to include with whom I stood those watches with date and time and remarks). It took me about two years to get the books signed off and stand all the watches I need to stand to complete each booklet. The last phase was to sit in front of an oral board of officers which included the CO, XO, Navigator, Engineer, Combat Systems Officer, Ops Officer, 1st Lt., Quartermaster and Senior watch officer. It was the most grueling board I ever had to sit through. When it was all said and done, I was awarded my SWO pin and found my self on the watch-bill as OOD underway and Command Duty Officer in port (CDO). As an qualified OOD U/W, I logged 100's of watches with 1000's of hours as OOD U/W on two separate deployments (1. North Atlantic to include transit of English Channel 2. Med cruise) and Reftra to boot with several drug interdiction operations in the Caribbean. All this was done while still accomplishing my main duty as the Ships Combat Systems Test Officer (STO) and Weapons Engagement Console Officer (WEC) at GQ. There was a special entry made in my in my fitness reports that I accomplish this task. And I might add this was done on a Nuclear Cruiser!
This process was done for every Surface Warfare officer that reported aboard that did not have his SWO pin. Am I to assume this is no longer done?
This process was done for every Surface Warfare officer that reported aboard that did not have his SWO pin. Am I to assume this is no longer done?
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LCDR (Join to see)
Sure, except people can get away with either not being that good to begin with or brain dumping information after the board with little-to-no repercussions, due to the fact the surface Navy hemorrhages junior SWOs. You don't get the best COs and DHs by giving a community a 98% advancement to O-4 or 90% to O-5.
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LT Brad McInnis
CWO3 Dennis M. Your story is why I love Warrants and LDO's! That process still happens to some degree for SWO's. There are still PQS books (mine was 4 or 5 3" binders) that takes you through all facets of the ship. My issue is that this qual path does not lead to a lot of quality pin wearers. What you get are some that are really good, that will be really good at whatever they do. The majority of the SWO's are going to brain dump most of the stuff right after the board, still good officers, just not as good as they could be. Then there is the rest, which is a small percentage that just don't get it.
As far as these accidents, my 2 cents is that there needs to be an LDO or CWO that specializes in bridge watches/navigation. They would come up through QM, OS or BM rates (yes, one of the best OOD's I ever saw was a BMC). Granted, he was scared to death to screw things up, so he triple checked everything, but he was really good at it. But, these LDO/CWO types would be sent to various ships to learn how to drive them, spend a lot of time on simulators. The reasoning is that SWOS are jacks of all trades and masters of none, and it is biting us in the keister right now. Other navies do this, and their ship driving in much better than ours...
Just a thought after many, many hours on the bridge...
As far as these accidents, my 2 cents is that there needs to be an LDO or CWO that specializes in bridge watches/navigation. They would come up through QM, OS or BM rates (yes, one of the best OOD's I ever saw was a BMC). Granted, he was scared to death to screw things up, so he triple checked everything, but he was really good at it. But, these LDO/CWO types would be sent to various ships to learn how to drive them, spend a lot of time on simulators. The reasoning is that SWOS are jacks of all trades and masters of none, and it is biting us in the keister right now. Other navies do this, and their ship driving in much better than ours...
Just a thought after many, many hours on the bridge...
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CWO2 John Markiewicz
I am a little confused. I qualified for my Surface Warfare Officer pin as a WO1 aboard the USS Enterprise in 1971 or 1972 when the pin and program was first introduced and was one of the first Warrant Officers in the Navy to earn the new qualification and Warfare Pin. I now read that the pin and qualification program was created in 1975. I left the USS Enterprise in early 1972 as a CWO2 and went to Guam wearing my Gold Surface Warfare Officer Pin. In 1974 I reverted to Senior Chief Radioman and got out of the Navy for about a year and a half after which I came back in the Navy and rode submarines, where I qualified for enlisted Submarine Dolphins in 1977, for the rest of my career. I do not understand where the 1975 date came from as I was already wearing the pin in 1971. I wore both Surface Warfare Officer and Submarine Enlisted Pins throughout the Submarine years of my career.
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