Posted on May 26, 2016
“American Sniper” Chris Kyle Distorted His Military Record, Documents Show
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If this is true, then nothing is sacred anymore. IF he embellished himself with these awards, what else was fabricated? I really, REALLY hope this is not true.
“American Sniper” Chris Kyle Distorted His Military Record, Documents Show
Posted from theintercept.com
Navy SEALs
Integrity
Special Operations
Stolen Valor
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
Its well known within the community that he fabricated MANY stories, not just some of his medals. Given his stature though, many were afraid to say anything. What you're seeing is just the beginning of the truth coming out.
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LTC Yinon Weiss
SSG Warren Swan - He's still a hero, but just a hero with shortcomings. We can't put people up on a pedestal and expect perfection. I don't know why somebody would lie about what he lied about, but I think it deserves more sympathy than anger. According to the documents revealed this week, he was officially warned by the military about his claims before he published his book, but he did it anyway.
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/05/25/chris-kyle-american-sniper-silver-star/84923190/
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/05/25/chris-kyle-american-sniper-silver-star/84923190/
New questions cast doubt on 'American Sniper' Chris Kyle's combat record
At issue: The Navy SEAL's claim he earned two Silver Stars and five Bronze Stars.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I believe the extent of the problem of phony "opetators" as well as phony regular guys is much worse than we know. I hate to say it but I really scrutinize just about anyone wearing military awards or decorations after they leave the service. The Medal of Honor recipients are the exception. I think they get it that they're part of history and wearing that medal inspires other service members and helps tell the story of America. When I see these people wearing 14 pounds of look at me hero gear on a motorcycle vest I get very curious.
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SN Greg Wright
MAJ (Join to see) - Just to point out, Kyle was in no way a phony operator. As LTC Yinon Weiss said, he was a hero with flaws...but saying he's phony would wipe out the vast good he did do.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SN Greg Wright - I understand and appreciate the chance for clarification. I should have said I was mentioning the larger problem and not anyone in particular.
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Did any of the respondents to this question read the supporting documentation for the original article in "The Intercept"? I did and I find that the information is not as compelling as some may think. I am not in the Navy or Marine Corps, but I can read the appropriate regulations and understand what the appropriate supporting documentation should be. Someone correct me if I am wrong on any of my assumptions or conclusions.
1. Isn't the OPNAV 1650/3 the Navy equivalent of the DA Form 638?
2. In the released documents where are the supporting documents?
3. Where is the NDAWS printouts for each of the items presented in the release?
4. Where are the OPNAV 1650/3's for each of the awards?
5. The presented awards citations and certificates for the Bronze Stars do not match. The citations appear to be for individual actions and the certificates appear to be for deployment periods (as for end of tour awards).
6. The Evaluation Reports appear to also have gaps, where are the reports that would have included the one known Silver Star, and the report with the first Bronze Star (the 3rd BS appears to be shown as the first in the reports but then there is a discrepancy in the dates)?
7. Where are the OPNAV 1650/3, Citations, Award Certificates, NDAWS entries, and Orders for each of the known awards?
Do I need to document the information provided to show that there are major gaps in this story all around?
I have and I find that there are a number of discrepancies to be found between the various documents presented. Just the Bronze Star alone, if you look at the dates of the evaluation reports and awards listed on them you would note that the first Bronze Star w/V is not listed, you will also find that there is a distinct discrepancy in regards to the 3rd Bronze Star w/V, with it being listed on his eval report as being awarded in the 2006-2007 time period and the citation shows that a 3rd one was awarded in 2009 for a period in 2008. This last discrepancy definitely leads me to believe that the 2009 award should have been for at least a 4th award.
My conclusion from just the information presented is as follows:
Bronze Star w/V - 1st Award 2004 - Down graded SS. Certificate/DG Memo Jun 06
Bronze Star - 1st Award 2004-2005 - Award Citation
Bronze Star w/V - 2nd Award 2005-2006 - 05-06 Eval Report
Bronze Star w/V - 3rd Award 2006-2007 - 06-07 Eval Report (Stated only as BS w/V)
Bronze Star w/V - 4th Award 2008 - 2009 Award Certificate (Shown on Certificate as 3rd Award)
To me that represents 5 Bronze Stars with 4 having the w/V device.
Considering the information provided, I believe that some individuals can not count or do a proper audit to request the appropriate information through the FOIA.
1. Isn't the OPNAV 1650/3 the Navy equivalent of the DA Form 638?
2. In the released documents where are the supporting documents?
3. Where is the NDAWS printouts for each of the items presented in the release?
4. Where are the OPNAV 1650/3's for each of the awards?
5. The presented awards citations and certificates for the Bronze Stars do not match. The citations appear to be for individual actions and the certificates appear to be for deployment periods (as for end of tour awards).
6. The Evaluation Reports appear to also have gaps, where are the reports that would have included the one known Silver Star, and the report with the first Bronze Star (the 3rd BS appears to be shown as the first in the reports but then there is a discrepancy in the dates)?
7. Where are the OPNAV 1650/3, Citations, Award Certificates, NDAWS entries, and Orders for each of the known awards?
Do I need to document the information provided to show that there are major gaps in this story all around?
I have and I find that there are a number of discrepancies to be found between the various documents presented. Just the Bronze Star alone, if you look at the dates of the evaluation reports and awards listed on them you would note that the first Bronze Star w/V is not listed, you will also find that there is a distinct discrepancy in regards to the 3rd Bronze Star w/V, with it being listed on his eval report as being awarded in the 2006-2007 time period and the citation shows that a 3rd one was awarded in 2009 for a period in 2008. This last discrepancy definitely leads me to believe that the 2009 award should have been for at least a 4th award.
My conclusion from just the information presented is as follows:
Bronze Star w/V - 1st Award 2004 - Down graded SS. Certificate/DG Memo Jun 06
Bronze Star - 1st Award 2004-2005 - Award Citation
Bronze Star w/V - 2nd Award 2005-2006 - 05-06 Eval Report
Bronze Star w/V - 3rd Award 2006-2007 - 06-07 Eval Report (Stated only as BS w/V)
Bronze Star w/V - 4th Award 2008 - 2009 Award Certificate (Shown on Certificate as 3rd Award)
To me that represents 5 Bronze Stars with 4 having the w/V device.
Considering the information provided, I believe that some individuals can not count or do a proper audit to request the appropriate information through the FOIA.
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SSG Warren Swan
Thanks for the clarification Staff. CPO Wheeler above might be someone you can talk to. He knows more on this, along with MAJ Weiss.
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SSG Robert Webster
SSG Warren Swan - I had already tagged MAJ Weiss in an earlier version of my comment in another discussion thread. He voted it up, but did not make a comment.
CPO (Join to see) any comments about my statement?
CPO (Join to see) any comments about my statement?
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CPO (Join to see)
SSG Robert Webster -
1. Yes the 1650/3 is the same as DOD form 638.
2.The supporting documents I'm with you why do they not show those. I will say NDAWS and personnel records talk to each other just started after I retired in 2013. One problem in this whole thing is they work with Joint Task Forces all the time and NDAWS did not update with joint awards system as of 2009. I believe after that 2010 they started updating together. I would also wonder were the print out are but if his PSD did not input in NDAWS his records may not match. Like I stated they just made it mandatory for PSD to match the DD 214 NDAWS.
3. That's a good question 1650/3's for each should be with the citations. When you are presented they give you a copy so you have proof and authorization for award. If he had copies that he was awarded and update his records upon ETS out with records clerk that is what I had to do with some of my awards on the way out they did not have so I showed them proof and they made copies and posted to my record. So they should have done this with his record.
5. They started enforcing that if you received spot awards from Joint commands you would not receive EOT's and this could be reason for certificates.
6.I saw the gaps also and don't know.
As for the reports sometime if it was left out of previous report they will place in the new reporting period.
I would like to see what the Navy has said. I just think it is wrong to question some one who was killed and not here to provide paper work or explain and I think it is witch hunt like I said. I sated this before the SEALs are now under fire and in some ways they did it to them selves by trying to look like the best of the best. I have some stories of them in real action and it does not match what they say and over exaggerate the true missions. This will keep coming out as they stay in the light like they wanted.
1. Yes the 1650/3 is the same as DOD form 638.
2.The supporting documents I'm with you why do they not show those. I will say NDAWS and personnel records talk to each other just started after I retired in 2013. One problem in this whole thing is they work with Joint Task Forces all the time and NDAWS did not update with joint awards system as of 2009. I believe after that 2010 they started updating together. I would also wonder were the print out are but if his PSD did not input in NDAWS his records may not match. Like I stated they just made it mandatory for PSD to match the DD 214 NDAWS.
3. That's a good question 1650/3's for each should be with the citations. When you are presented they give you a copy so you have proof and authorization for award. If he had copies that he was awarded and update his records upon ETS out with records clerk that is what I had to do with some of my awards on the way out they did not have so I showed them proof and they made copies and posted to my record. So they should have done this with his record.
5. They started enforcing that if you received spot awards from Joint commands you would not receive EOT's and this could be reason for certificates.
6.I saw the gaps also and don't know.
As for the reports sometime if it was left out of previous report they will place in the new reporting period.
I would like to see what the Navy has said. I just think it is wrong to question some one who was killed and not here to provide paper work or explain and I think it is witch hunt like I said. I sated this before the SEALs are now under fire and in some ways they did it to them selves by trying to look like the best of the best. I have some stories of them in real action and it does not match what they say and over exaggerate the true missions. This will keep coming out as they stay in the light like they wanted.
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CPO (Join to see)
SSG Robert Webster - Everyone is blaming the Navy and PSD. I would say Chief may have brought in the paper work that showed some awards the Navy did not have listed. Here is the issue becuse it happen to me and some of my troops. We work and support SOF Joint Task Forces and Reg Special Joint Task Forces like SEAL's. Now here is the problem they had several of these task Forces for GWOT all over the world. They have their own admin that is mixed personel from all branchs and back then they did not have a Joint Awrades data base that would feed into all the branches admin systems. They do have that system now and have made other changes. Some of those changes are if you have a Bronze Star or higher and or Joint Award carrying the same has to go through both the Joint Command and Navy for approvel. They did not start doing this until 2010. When the tsak forces didpand everyone goes their separate ways and it is hard to find the paper trail. So now JTF's like SOF and Engineer forces JTF'S have a system that talks to each other and you know who is getting somthing down range. So Navy PSD may not have had anything to do with this. I have 3 High JTF awrades and had to fight to make sure they updated in the Navy system pre 2010. When you work in a Joint enviroment you are OPCON and TACCON to the JTF and in some cases you are ADCON and that is what makes it hard because your parent command has no oversight.
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I am pretty sure just as much was fabricated from people hearing stories. End story though, he saved countless lives.
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