Posted on Jun 12, 2016
Gun Facts | Gun Control and Crime in non-US Countries
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Let's stop blaming the tool used and start placing the blame where it belong... the shooter.
Gun Facts | Gun Control and Crime in non-US Countries
Posted from gunfacts.info
Political Correctness
Politics
Weapons
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 5
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SSG Pete Fleming
Great read but the gun grabbers won't believe these facts, since they don't agree with their beliefs!
Great read but the gun grabbers won't believe these facts, since they don't agree with their beliefs!
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PO1 John Miller
SSG Pete Fleming
Check out the Occupy Democrats FB page. It's scary what those people believe!
Check out the Occupy Democrats FB page. It's scary what those people believe!
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SSG Pete Fleming for those who believe no amount of proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no amount of proof is convincing.
Sadly it is all about perspective. This is going to take a little explaining, so please bear with me.
When I met my wife, she had four kids from her previous marriage, and a fear of guns. I have always enjoyed shooting as a form of stress relief. Not a good combination. I started work in security when we moved in together. I had a firearm that I kept under lock and key where the only person in the house who knew where it was stored was me. When I left that job, I got rid of the pistol I carried out of respect for my wife's wishes.
Fast forward to last year. My youngest daughter entered her senior year of high school, and I told my wife that with the kids being grown up, I was going to go back to shooting. I purchased two pistols one for CC and one so I could teach my daughter to shoot (.22 Cal. Walther PPK). Things were fine until last week.
My daughter realized that her boyfriend was being controlling, and that she was in a bad relationship. She decided to break up with him. The following night, he shot himself in the chest, while she was on the phone with him. Now he and his family are trying to contact my daughter in regards to the statement she gave to the police. We have changed my daughter's phone number, and blocked him and his family both from calling, and on all social media outlets. We were told that when he was physically healed that he would be held by the state for a mental evaluation.
My wife travels for work so she is on the road today. This morning I received a call from her. She asked me to train my daughter to shoot to the point it becomes second nature. My wife's perspective has changed. Her maternal instinct to protect our daughter, and give our daughter the ability to protect herself has overpowered her personal view on guns. She now is full on board with my point of view that one responsibly armed citizen can be the difference between life and death. It was not statistics, politics, or any lofty ideals that changed her mind. It was a mother's desire to protect her child from harm.
Sadly it is all about perspective. This is going to take a little explaining, so please bear with me.
When I met my wife, she had four kids from her previous marriage, and a fear of guns. I have always enjoyed shooting as a form of stress relief. Not a good combination. I started work in security when we moved in together. I had a firearm that I kept under lock and key where the only person in the house who knew where it was stored was me. When I left that job, I got rid of the pistol I carried out of respect for my wife's wishes.
Fast forward to last year. My youngest daughter entered her senior year of high school, and I told my wife that with the kids being grown up, I was going to go back to shooting. I purchased two pistols one for CC and one so I could teach my daughter to shoot (.22 Cal. Walther PPK). Things were fine until last week.
My daughter realized that her boyfriend was being controlling, and that she was in a bad relationship. She decided to break up with him. The following night, he shot himself in the chest, while she was on the phone with him. Now he and his family are trying to contact my daughter in regards to the statement she gave to the police. We have changed my daughter's phone number, and blocked him and his family both from calling, and on all social media outlets. We were told that when he was physically healed that he would be held by the state for a mental evaluation.
My wife travels for work so she is on the road today. This morning I received a call from her. She asked me to train my daughter to shoot to the point it becomes second nature. My wife's perspective has changed. Her maternal instinct to protect our daughter, and give our daughter the ability to protect herself has overpowered her personal view on guns. She now is full on board with my point of view that one responsibly armed citizen can be the difference between life and death. It was not statistics, politics, or any lofty ideals that changed her mind. It was a mother's desire to protect her child from harm.
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SSG Pete Fleming
I am sorry for what your family has gone through... I do not support gun control. I am a supporter of the 2nd.
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SSgt Christopher Brose
I was married for a short time. I think it was in 2008, someone beheaded someone on a bus in Canada. When my wife heard that news, she absolutely freaked out and was practically inconsolable. If that could happen on a bus in Canada, it could happen anywhere, and she totally panicked.
In one of the rare moments of success as a husband, I went out and got her a S&W .22 revolver. Once she had it in her hands, she felt a sense of control over her situation, a feeling that had completely evaporated when she'd heard the news. I showed her how to use it, and she regained a sense of normality. She wasn't anti-gun before, but her perspective changed very rapidly. Your story reminded me of that.
In one of the rare moments of success as a husband, I went out and got her a S&W .22 revolver. Once she had it in her hands, she felt a sense of control over her situation, a feeling that had completely evaporated when she'd heard the news. I showed her how to use it, and she regained a sense of normality. She wasn't anti-gun before, but her perspective changed very rapidly. Your story reminded me of that.
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I understand completely that banning guns is not going to solve anything. I mean, drugs are illegal and we all see how well that is keeping drugs off the street. However, there are a lot of counterpoints I could use to argue the "facts" posted, such as:
Fact: According to the U.N., as of 2005, Scotland was the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America. Violent crime there has doubled over the last 20 years. 3% of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2% in America.
The issue at hand is not assault, but homicide, or the situation causing a rise currently, genocide. That is comparing apples to bananas.
Fact: Even if we examine just firearm ownership and firearm homicide by country, we see no correlation between the two.
There is a VERY OBVIOUS correlation between firearm ownership and firearm homicide.
Fact: In Canada around 1920, before there was any form of gun control, their homicide rate was 7% of the U.S rate. By 1986, and after significant gun control legislation, Canada’s homicide rate was 35% of the U.S. rate – a significant increase. In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000).
Fact: One study of Canadian firearm law and homicide rates spanning 34 years “failed to demonstrate a beneficial association between legislation and firearm homicide rates” for three major gun control bills.
Fact: The crime rate is 66% higher in four Canadian Prairie Provinces than in the northern US states across the border.
Well, here is a link to a website that a) is more recent than 2003, b) doesn't pick and choose which parts of the country to include, a c) disputes your findings. They also show that the united states has a much higher fear of a violent crime happening, during daylight and night hours, hate crimes, etc. Oh, and this was just the first result I came across when I ran an Internet search. No bias, just what came up. The next three I read also have findings that differ from your source. I tried to use the sources that your site provided, but they just linked back to the same page as your 'facts,' which makes me want to discredit your page completely.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime
I could go on, but I will choose not to. Instead, I will go back to my original statement. Outlawing guns is not going to solve anything, I understand this. If people in general want something, they will find a way to get it. All I am saying is that STUPID events, such as the Orlando shooting and the 10 examples of gun violence found in the attached photo, need to stop. We, as a society, can not look at these events and say, "Well, shit happens."
I agree with you, people need to be held responsible, however, should it be so easy to own a firearm? It much easier to pull a gun on somebody and fire as opposed to beat somebody to death with a baseball bat. Every house has a knife, but nobody is being stabbed to death. How about we study the correlation between fear and violence, see what we come up with.
P.S. Here are links to the events in the picture. Yes, these happened.
A family of four tried to pass me on the interstate, so I shot and killed the mom. (WI, 5/1)
http://www.nbcchicago.com/…/Woman-Dies-Random-Shooting-Wisc…
I was fired from my job so I went back with a shotgun and shot five people. (TX, 5/4)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/police-respond-to-report…/…
My brother wanted my cheeseburger, so I shot him dead. (FL, 5/5)
http://www.wesh.com/…/man-shoots-kills-brother-aft…/39411398
I tried to get some tacos from the taco truck, and some guy thought I cut in line in front of him, so I shot him. (TX, 5/10)
http://m.statesman.com/…/fight-in-line-at-taco-truck…/nrKqR/
I was playing with my gun at home and unintentionally pulled the trigger. The bullet went through my hand, through a woman's leg, through a wall into a neighbor's apartment, and into the body of a four-month-old baby who was nursing in its mother's arms. (GA, 5/10)
http://www.11alive.com/…/infant-shot-while-in-its…/185267237
I liked to feed the squirrels in our neighborhood, but several of my neighbors didn't like that. One of them argued with me about it, so I shot him in the buttocks and claimed self defense. (CO, 5/12)
http://www.dailycamera.com/…/dispute-over-feeding-squirrels…
My husband and I were having a fight, so we both grabbed our guns and shot each other. (VA, 5/13)
http://www.wdbj7.com/…/One-dead-one-hurt-in-shooting-in-Roa…
My three-year-old stepson was jumping on the bed and wouldn’t behave, so I shot him dead. (TX, 5/19)
http://www.cbsnews.com/…/teen-stepfather-charged-with-fat…/…
My girlfriend was arguing with me about how to spend the money I inherited. She got mad and pulled a gun on me, so I took it away from her and shot her with it. (KY, 5/19)
http://www.kentucky.com/ne…/local/crime/article80015262.html
Dad and I were arguing, so I shot him a few times and dropped the gun. He picked it up and shot me. (FL, 5/23)
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/…/jso-father-and-so…/211972339
My neighbor was mowing her lawn. I showed her where I thought the boundary was between our properties, but she disagreed, so I shot her. (WA, 5/28)
http://www.oregonlive.com/…/lake_stevens_woman_shot_in_law.…
Fact: According to the U.N., as of 2005, Scotland was the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America. Violent crime there has doubled over the last 20 years. 3% of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2% in America.
The issue at hand is not assault, but homicide, or the situation causing a rise currently, genocide. That is comparing apples to bananas.
Fact: Even if we examine just firearm ownership and firearm homicide by country, we see no correlation between the two.
There is a VERY OBVIOUS correlation between firearm ownership and firearm homicide.
Fact: In Canada around 1920, before there was any form of gun control, their homicide rate was 7% of the U.S rate. By 1986, and after significant gun control legislation, Canada’s homicide rate was 35% of the U.S. rate – a significant increase. In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000).
Fact: One study of Canadian firearm law and homicide rates spanning 34 years “failed to demonstrate a beneficial association between legislation and firearm homicide rates” for three major gun control bills.
Fact: The crime rate is 66% higher in four Canadian Prairie Provinces than in the northern US states across the border.
Well, here is a link to a website that a) is more recent than 2003, b) doesn't pick and choose which parts of the country to include, a c) disputes your findings. They also show that the united states has a much higher fear of a violent crime happening, during daylight and night hours, hate crimes, etc. Oh, and this was just the first result I came across when I ran an Internet search. No bias, just what came up. The next three I read also have findings that differ from your source. I tried to use the sources that your site provided, but they just linked back to the same page as your 'facts,' which makes me want to discredit your page completely.
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime
I could go on, but I will choose not to. Instead, I will go back to my original statement. Outlawing guns is not going to solve anything, I understand this. If people in general want something, they will find a way to get it. All I am saying is that STUPID events, such as the Orlando shooting and the 10 examples of gun violence found in the attached photo, need to stop. We, as a society, can not look at these events and say, "Well, shit happens."
I agree with you, people need to be held responsible, however, should it be so easy to own a firearm? It much easier to pull a gun on somebody and fire as opposed to beat somebody to death with a baseball bat. Every house has a knife, but nobody is being stabbed to death. How about we study the correlation between fear and violence, see what we come up with.
P.S. Here are links to the events in the picture. Yes, these happened.
A family of four tried to pass me on the interstate, so I shot and killed the mom. (WI, 5/1)
http://www.nbcchicago.com/…/Woman-Dies-Random-Shooting-Wisc…
I was fired from my job so I went back with a shotgun and shot five people. (TX, 5/4)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/police-respond-to-report…/…
My brother wanted my cheeseburger, so I shot him dead. (FL, 5/5)
http://www.wesh.com/…/man-shoots-kills-brother-aft…/39411398
I tried to get some tacos from the taco truck, and some guy thought I cut in line in front of him, so I shot him. (TX, 5/10)
http://m.statesman.com/…/fight-in-line-at-taco-truck…/nrKqR/
I was playing with my gun at home and unintentionally pulled the trigger. The bullet went through my hand, through a woman's leg, through a wall into a neighbor's apartment, and into the body of a four-month-old baby who was nursing in its mother's arms. (GA, 5/10)
http://www.11alive.com/…/infant-shot-while-in-its…/185267237
I liked to feed the squirrels in our neighborhood, but several of my neighbors didn't like that. One of them argued with me about it, so I shot him in the buttocks and claimed self defense. (CO, 5/12)
http://www.dailycamera.com/…/dispute-over-feeding-squirrels…
My husband and I were having a fight, so we both grabbed our guns and shot each other. (VA, 5/13)
http://www.wdbj7.com/…/One-dead-one-hurt-in-shooting-in-Roa…
My three-year-old stepson was jumping on the bed and wouldn’t behave, so I shot him dead. (TX, 5/19)
http://www.cbsnews.com/…/teen-stepfather-charged-with-fat…/…
My girlfriend was arguing with me about how to spend the money I inherited. She got mad and pulled a gun on me, so I took it away from her and shot her with it. (KY, 5/19)
http://www.kentucky.com/ne…/local/crime/article80015262.html
Dad and I were arguing, so I shot him a few times and dropped the gun. He picked it up and shot me. (FL, 5/23)
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/…/jso-father-and-so…/211972339
My neighbor was mowing her lawn. I showed her where I thought the boundary was between our properties, but she disagreed, so I shot her. (WA, 5/28)
http://www.oregonlive.com/…/lake_stevens_woman_shot_in_law.…
Canada vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
Intentional homicide rate, Rape rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate, Crime levels and 86 More Interesting Facts and Stats
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LTC Eric Coger
Actually there are more assaults and murders by people using knives than by guns every year. 300 million people in the country, people are going to die every day; we need to look at the whole picture and not just the tool used. Cars are a great analogy. Heavily regulated, training and licensing, insurance and registration: more deaths related per year than by any other machine or tool. Some are accidental, some are suicide, some are murder; we need to look at mental health and our amoral cultural icons. Then we need to look at this case that happened in Orlando: Let's look at Islam.
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree, Sir. It is not about the tool being used, it is about the people who are using them. If somebody wants to kill another person, and all they have is a spoon, they will use it. The thing that I, personally, have an issue with is the ease with which a person can use said tool to kill.
There are a lot of great programs that exist that teach gun safety; proper use, storage, cleaning, technique, etc. for guns. And I am not against people owning guns, I am just against "stupid" people owning guns. I understand stupid is a relative term, but it is the only term applicable in this scenario. I am also against those same stupid people driving, or carrying any sort of weapon.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what we do, we cannot eliminate gun violence. Anybody, with enough motive, can get their hands on a gun and kill in large numbers. Hell, you can use a 3D printer to make a fully functioning gun. However, that should not stop us, as a collective society of humans, from trying to put in place some system to mitigate violence with a firearm.
There are a lot of great programs that exist that teach gun safety; proper use, storage, cleaning, technique, etc. for guns. And I am not against people owning guns, I am just against "stupid" people owning guns. I understand stupid is a relative term, but it is the only term applicable in this scenario. I am also against those same stupid people driving, or carrying any sort of weapon.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what we do, we cannot eliminate gun violence. Anybody, with enough motive, can get their hands on a gun and kill in large numbers. Hell, you can use a 3D printer to make a fully functioning gun. However, that should not stop us, as a collective society of humans, from trying to put in place some system to mitigate violence with a firearm.
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SSG Pete Fleming
SFC (Join to see) - Thank you for a good and well thought out counter reply. It is nice to see people fight facts with facts. (not being a smartass) I will need to look into your information a bit more. It won't change my stance that guns don't kill people, people do and if they want to kill someone they will. But thank you, I appreciated this reply...
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT Gregory Lawritson, I never once insinuated that you were 'dumb as a post.' If I offended you, I apologize.
And yes, I could have quantified my statements better. So, allow me to attempt that:
Your number of privately owned firearms in the US is accurate; anywhere from 270,000,000 - 310,000,000 (both licit and illicit). With the population at approximately 320,000,000 in the United States, that means that 0.97 of citizens own a firearm of some sort. Take into account that roughly 23% of the population is under the age of 18 and cannot legally own a gun, and that puts (on the lowest end of the gun owning spectrum) the average of 1.10 guns per person in the US. More than one gun per person in the US who is 18 or older.
Almost 34,000 deaths in the US in 2014, with nearly 600 of those being unintentional; nearly 50 people a month, on average, died accidentally. That is tragic. I will formally withdraw my "gun owners are, oftentimes, dumb," and replace it with "too many gun owners act irresponsibly." You may very well be the exception to this, being a responsible gun owner for over 46 years, and I applaud you for never having an incident. If all gun owners were like you this argument would be moot, or non-existent. However, your brethren are creating a bad name for you. I suppose it could be a simple 'complacency' issue with gun owners feeling they are far too knowledgeable to have an ND, but the fact still stands that accidental deaths as a result of firearms happen. Yes, based on statistics, accidental gun deaths have dropped since 1999, but they are still over 500. That is a scary thought. Looking at the total gun deaths, they have risen by over 5000 in the same time frame. Yes, the argument can be made for self defense and Police in the line of duty. But, the other side is just senseless violence (gang shootings, crime-related, etc.) No matter how you cut it, it is also a scary thought.
Once again, I am not anti-firearms. If you are a collector, a hunter, or just like owning guns, then by all means go ahead. We are all citizens of the US; Land of the Free. The 2d Amendment says the citizens have a right to own weapons, and I am not advocating against that. We all have a right to our freedoms as allowed by the government. My PERSONAL concern lay with those freedoms taking away from another persons freedom to live. Killing another person for something like 'he wanted my cheeseburger' is silly, and persons like that need not own a firearm.
Sources:
http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states
And yes, I could have quantified my statements better. So, allow me to attempt that:
Your number of privately owned firearms in the US is accurate; anywhere from 270,000,000 - 310,000,000 (both licit and illicit). With the population at approximately 320,000,000 in the United States, that means that 0.97 of citizens own a firearm of some sort. Take into account that roughly 23% of the population is under the age of 18 and cannot legally own a gun, and that puts (on the lowest end of the gun owning spectrum) the average of 1.10 guns per person in the US. More than one gun per person in the US who is 18 or older.
Almost 34,000 deaths in the US in 2014, with nearly 600 of those being unintentional; nearly 50 people a month, on average, died accidentally. That is tragic. I will formally withdraw my "gun owners are, oftentimes, dumb," and replace it with "too many gun owners act irresponsibly." You may very well be the exception to this, being a responsible gun owner for over 46 years, and I applaud you for never having an incident. If all gun owners were like you this argument would be moot, or non-existent. However, your brethren are creating a bad name for you. I suppose it could be a simple 'complacency' issue with gun owners feeling they are far too knowledgeable to have an ND, but the fact still stands that accidental deaths as a result of firearms happen. Yes, based on statistics, accidental gun deaths have dropped since 1999, but they are still over 500. That is a scary thought. Looking at the total gun deaths, they have risen by over 5000 in the same time frame. Yes, the argument can be made for self defense and Police in the line of duty. But, the other side is just senseless violence (gang shootings, crime-related, etc.) No matter how you cut it, it is also a scary thought.
Once again, I am not anti-firearms. If you are a collector, a hunter, or just like owning guns, then by all means go ahead. We are all citizens of the US; Land of the Free. The 2d Amendment says the citizens have a right to own weapons, and I am not advocating against that. We all have a right to our freedoms as allowed by the government. My PERSONAL concern lay with those freedoms taking away from another persons freedom to live. Killing another person for something like 'he wanted my cheeseburger' is silly, and persons like that need not own a firearm.
Sources:
http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states
American FactFinder is your source for population, housing, economic and geographic information.
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