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SGT Edward Wilcox
10
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While I am not a believer in "White Privilege", I can say, without a doubt, that blacks, and other minorities, are, most certainly, at a greater disadvantage than whites, in general.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
>1 y
Agree, and for whatever reason Trump has inspired an attitude with less advantaged whites that they are suddenly more entitled.
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LTC Orlando Illi
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MAJ James Woods
MAJ James Woods
>1 y
Capt Jeff S. - Yeah and unfortunately the "everyone is equal at the starting line" is still not an undeniable reality. It also means after the whistle is blown the obstacles in the path are based on the path we run not someone intentionally throwing an obstacle to trip you up in order to allow someone else to get ahead. So lets not pretend elements in our society don't deliberately try to hold back others on the basis of skin color, gender, religion, or ethnicity.
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Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
>1 y
Likewise let's not pretend others are given special perks and advantages to make up for perceived injustices that they never personally experienced. I've never met a slave or slave owner in my life. My ancestors came to America AFTER the Civil War and settled in the North. Do I owe someone an apology?
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Capt Jeff S.
Capt Jeff S.
>1 y
MAJ James Woods, If the outcome is determined by the effort you put in, then you didn't waste effort dealing with obstacles, therefore it is true equality. Your efforts directly contributed to your outcome.

If someone set up obstacles in your path you would achieve a lesser outcome due to the effort you had to waste overcoming them.... and that would mean that was an unequal outcome -- that is, if everyone didn't have to face the same obstacles.

If everyone faced the same obstacles, then we still have equality. Life is full of obstacles and challenges. Rather than making excuses and blaming others for our poor performance, I think we would be better served by having a positive, can do attitude than a defeatist attitude where you complain that it's impossible to succeed because everything is stacked against you.
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MAJ James Woods
MAJ James Woods
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Capt Jeff S. - So if a White teacher blows whistle and builds a wall in the Black student's lane at 100m mark but nothing in the White student's lane that's acceptable. Teach builds a taller wall at 200m for Black student but again nothing for the White student. Now a wall with glass shards at top at the 300m mark and so on and so on. I'm to believe as long as the Black student overcomes the deliberate racially biased obstacles is still true equality for both runners? Now replace walls with the laws, racial profiling, and prejudices in application practices that have been in our society for generations that impacted minorities, ethnicities, and low income families (to include White families).

Simpler analogy. Five racers (White, Asian, Hispanic, Black, Indian). Ball and chain of different weights put on 4 of 5 racers based on the prejudice of the judge. Same starting line and whistle. Are they truly equal?

No. Your initial race analogy is based on a false premise that doesn't exist in American society. Working middle class works hard as hell only to see the true wealth and opportunity through manipulation of laws and regulations benefit the few. Some work hard and succeed. Some don't work hard at all and succeed. But when someone intentionally holds others back out of prejudice, we have a problem and that's the issue.
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SGT English/Language Arts Teacher
5
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Edited >1 y ago
And yet slaves were deemed 3/5 a man, Native Americans were forcibly removed from their land (see Andrew Jackson's ignoring the Supreme Court decision on confiscation of Native American land), immigration laws to prohibit Chinese immigration for ten years as well as later limiting Catholic, Slavic, and Mexican immigration. Internment of Japanese Americans during the second World War, Jim Crow laws in the South and some Northern states that oppressed Blacks for close to one hundred years, and persistent discrimination of Jews. That is not even mentioning the exploitation of Chinese and Irish labor to build our early infrastructure. Those are some of the things that occurred in our history.

Of course some whites have disadvantages, particularly those poor whites who do not have the means to higher education.

This quote was particularly interesting:
"Fisher v. University of Texas, the most recent challenge to affirmative action in higher education to reach the Supreme Court, provides significant context for this week’s developments. By 2013, when the Court first ruled on Fisher’s legal challenge to the University of Texas at Austin’s admissions process, sizable minorities of whites had begun to describe themselves, in public-opinion polls, as the most disadvantaged group in American society. African-Americans constituted more than eleven per cent of the population of Texas but just 4.5 per cent of the university population. Fisher’s suit relied on the fact that African-Americans with lower grades than hers had been admitted to U.T. while she had not. But this grievance overlooked the university’s broad formula of factors for admission; in fact, of the forty-seven students admitted to U.T. with lower grades and test scores than Fisher’s, forty-two were white. Last year, after taking up the Fisher case again, the Supreme Court narrowly upheld universities’ right to use race as one factor among many in their admissions processes. "

It just may be a perception among some that feel they should get into the school of their choice. However, most colleges look beyond grades alone. There are many factors that effect one's acceptance including test scores, essays, and letters of recommendation. Some schools even accept the children of alumni almost without question. These are not always fair, but there is a limit to enrollment and someone will always lose out, but perceiving you are disadvantaged limits your options. Those perceptions can either drive you on as motivation or leave you wallowing in self pity. And that applies to every group whether they perceive themselves as advantaged or disadvantaged.
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SSgt Copyright Specialist
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SGT (Join to see) - The thing is, not all African descendants were slaves, some were actual slave owners so they counted just as any other free person did, at least up until the Dred Scott decision. Also there are more ethnicities in America than just white and black. There were some Asians that were kept as slaves, Filipinos, Chinese, and Indians, from India not Native Americans (even though they were also used), were also used in limited capacities. They were found more in South and Central America than the US but some ended up here also.
The only reason people have the perception "that their worth was less another citizen" is because they do not take time to understand why the three-fifths compromise came to be. The South wanted slaves counted as whole people for purposes of Congressional representation while Northerners did not want them counted at all. Without the compromise, the US may have divided instead of coming together with the current Constitution. The South as their own separate nation or the several states as separate nations would have created an atmosphere that the founders were trying to avoid, mainly the constant warfare seen in Europe due to the numerous nations within close proximity of one another competing over land and resources. As a unified nation they would not have to worry as much about that. Of course this didn't play out so well as the US expanded westward and slave majority states wanted to expand their influence while non-slave states wanted to avoid that potential.
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LTC Immigration Judge
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SSgt (Join to see) - Black free men counted as 3/5. Slaves didn't count at all.
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Maj John Bell
Maj John Bell
>1 y
SSgt (Join to see) - Major Fishkin is incorrect.

"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among
the several States which may be included within this Union, according
to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by
adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound
to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed,
three fifths of all other Persons."

_US Constitution as originally ratified, Article 1, Section 2
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SSgt Copyright Specialist
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
LTC (Join to see) - Read the passage in the COnstitution. It says nothing about blacks, just free persons, including indentured servants, excluding Indians (Native Americans), all others being counted as three-fifths for purposes of representation in the House of Representatives. Major Bell quotes the passage above if you need to see it or go to Article 1 Section 2 of the Constitution found on the National Archives webpage.
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript#toc-section-2-
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