Posted on Oct 29, 2019
joe-biden-reportedly-denied-communion-south-carolina-church-over-his-stance-abortion
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I really don't care if your religious-a Christian or what you claim to be- I do know this if you are truly a Christian- God would not turn someone away baste on a belief. All I see from the priest, is a Hypocrite.
joe-biden-reportedly-denied-communion-south-carolina-church-over-his-stance-abortion
Posted from washingtonpost.comPosted in these groups: 
Religion
Religion
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 9
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There a many layers to this, and it's impossible to offer a "quick" response. However, I'll attempt to be concise. Let's begin with your statement, "God would not turn someone away based on a belief." Well, assuming (a) there is a God-which I believe there is, and (b), the Christian scriptures indicate His position-which I do; let's consider the following, "...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. (Revelations 21:8)" Some will say this sets an impossible standard, others will claim it's just one writer's opinion. Personally, I consider it a dire warning.
Then let's move on to the nature of sectarian identity within the Christian faith, which is convoluted to say the least. The Roman Catholic church regulates the sacrament of Communion by Canon law; in this case, Canon 915. The current position of the Roman Catholic Church (from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) is as follows, "God loves each human life from the instant of his or her conception and entrusts this gift to the protection of a mother and father. Abortion ends the life of a child and offends God. It also deeply wounds the women and men involved." Putting two and two together, this means (arguably) that this priest had every right under the governing rules of the Catholic Church, to deny communion.
Speaking as someone raised predominantly "Baptist", who later joined the Catholic Church, only to later in life determine himself to be "non-Denominational"... here's my take. I've yet to find the verse in the Bible dealing explicitly with abortion. That being said, I find many verses condemning the mindset, actions, and choices which lead to what seems to be the vast majority of abortions. If one chooses to believe there is no God (or at least reject the teaching of the world's three largest leading religions), then it really is a case of choice. For those who do believe, however, "choice" is always subject to consequence. I cannot support any abortion decision made for "convenience". It seems to me that if you have the presence of mind to engage in voluntary sexual intercourse... you accept the responsibilities involved. As pertains to the statistically less frequent cases of rape, incest, or risk to the mother... I can only pray for wisdom at the personal and public level when making those determinations; and yes, I'm hesitant to condemn what I may not fully understand. I would hope that wisdom would suggest that every possible avenue should be followed to bring that life into the world... and that we would be as passionate in preventing the causes as we seem to be in debating the solutions.
Something like 832,000 abortions occur in this nation each year. That works out to something like 13% of the total conceptions within the same time frame. Something like 59% of abortions are performed on patients who have already had other pregnancies or births. Statistics on reasons vary, but most indicate somewhere around 7% of all abortions are due to rape, serious fetal abnormality, or a threat to the mother's health... that's about 58,240. Let that sink in a moment; that's somewhere around 0.016% of the total population-take from that what you will.
Then let's move on to the nature of sectarian identity within the Christian faith, which is convoluted to say the least. The Roman Catholic church regulates the sacrament of Communion by Canon law; in this case, Canon 915. The current position of the Roman Catholic Church (from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) is as follows, "God loves each human life from the instant of his or her conception and entrusts this gift to the protection of a mother and father. Abortion ends the life of a child and offends God. It also deeply wounds the women and men involved." Putting two and two together, this means (arguably) that this priest had every right under the governing rules of the Catholic Church, to deny communion.
Speaking as someone raised predominantly "Baptist", who later joined the Catholic Church, only to later in life determine himself to be "non-Denominational"... here's my take. I've yet to find the verse in the Bible dealing explicitly with abortion. That being said, I find many verses condemning the mindset, actions, and choices which lead to what seems to be the vast majority of abortions. If one chooses to believe there is no God (or at least reject the teaching of the world's three largest leading religions), then it really is a case of choice. For those who do believe, however, "choice" is always subject to consequence. I cannot support any abortion decision made for "convenience". It seems to me that if you have the presence of mind to engage in voluntary sexual intercourse... you accept the responsibilities involved. As pertains to the statistically less frequent cases of rape, incest, or risk to the mother... I can only pray for wisdom at the personal and public level when making those determinations; and yes, I'm hesitant to condemn what I may not fully understand. I would hope that wisdom would suggest that every possible avenue should be followed to bring that life into the world... and that we would be as passionate in preventing the causes as we seem to be in debating the solutions.
Something like 832,000 abortions occur in this nation each year. That works out to something like 13% of the total conceptions within the same time frame. Something like 59% of abortions are performed on patients who have already had other pregnancies or births. Statistics on reasons vary, but most indicate somewhere around 7% of all abortions are due to rape, serious fetal abnormality, or a threat to the mother's health... that's about 58,240. Let that sink in a moment; that's somewhere around 0.016% of the total population-take from that what you will.
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SN Donald Hoffman
Well thought out for the argument of abortion. However, leaving the inflexibility of religion and politics in place. I wonder if the nation can survive the rigidity that is now in place.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
I think we can... we did for well over two centuries before this. The problem is simple; you cannot force someone to believe something... neither can you compel another to act against their beliefs. Whatever Jefferson really meant in his letter to the Danbury Baptists regarding, "separation of church and state"... we've woefully screwed it up. The idea, as I see it, was that government could not mandate a religious belief, nor interdict one. That's liberty, plain and simple. However, neither was Jefferson likely envisioning the "freedoms" many desire today when he said it. I'm not a doctor, but what little I've learned as a parent, leads to me to conclude that it is statistically very rare that a pregnancy results in an imminent threat to the life of the mother if carried to term... at least beyond those risks inherent in doing so. Factors contributing may include numerous ancillary health concerns that can/should be taken into account prior to attempting to get pregnant... or taking that risk using contraception. In those few cases, I would like to think if abortion was a necessity, both society and the medical community would consider it an absolute last resort. If that's all we were talking about... I don't think we'd see many picket signs expressing one view or the other, let alone the myriad debates surrounding it as a point of law. The reason, in my personal opinion, that we are... is that this issue (and others) are being used as fulcrums to wedge religion out of society in degrees-the better to replace it with humanism and statism. That cannot be attempted without anticipating resistance. That being said, we have a (relatively) peaceful process of representative government designed to prevent those conflicts from expanding into something much worse... for the time being, it seems to be working, if awkwardly, and at times... painfully.
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The Catholic Church is not the only church that may refuse someone communion. I have been a member of several churches (all Lutheran) that have closed communion. My current church has open communion
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SN Donald Hoffman
This is not a question of abortion. I do not approve, but its a woman's body and I have no place telling her what todo with her body- this is a question of believing in God and taking communion. I am sure no one can live there lives according to the bible. If you are going to be that ridged and prevent everyone that is not living according to the exact way laid out in the bible, no one would be allowed in a church. what I am saying is no one should be turned away for a belief you do not support.
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