Posted on Oct 18, 2016
Opening up borders: An idea economists tend to love and politicians detest
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Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 4
We already have a surplus of labor in this country, adding more labor would further depress wages. I'm all for the concept of open borders (people being free to go wherever they want), however until several reforms are made it would be a complete disaster. The first step would be ending the war on drugs, you can not have open borders and war on drugs at the same time. The second step would be returning manufacturing to the US, if you can bring back enough jobs that there is an actual shortage of labor... open borders wouldn't necessarily hurt the people the American government is supposed to be serving. Third, and perhaps most importantly, we need to develop a system that ensures workers receive a living wage and benefits like sick leave despite market conditions. Imports from countries that do not have such worker protections would need tariffs to level the playing field.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
This isnt specifically about the U.S., it's mostly just a collection of different economists opinions on increased immigrations effects on a nations (and the global) economy. Tied together with the authors opinions, of course.
The majority of economists appear to believe that more open borders (even completely open, but I don't believe that to be a great idea) will have a net positive effect on a nations economy.
The majority of economists appear to believe that more open borders (even completely open, but I don't believe that to be a great idea) will have a net positive effect on a nations economy.
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SSG (Join to see)
PFC Jim Wheeler - While I agree that as a general rule, increased liberty leads to increased prosperity... it's also important that workers in a country aren't forced to absorb the shock of a massive influx of people wiling to work for much lower wages. Countries have an obligation to look out for the best interests of their citizens, especially those who are most vulnerable. Countries also need to understand that banning substances (drugs) for which there is significant market demand is also going to fail spectacularly with open borders.
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SSG (Join to see)
PFC Jim Wheeler - The borders aren't really closed, their basically stuff half open. There are plenty of employers willing to look the other way in industries like construction and farm work... and all most undocumented workers need to do is come over here to shop and then stay to work. The ones that have to sneak across the borders are the ones with no papers, no money or criminal records. They are often often South and Central American Indians who don't even speak fluent Spanish.
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I am not a learned man on this subject, nor can I back up my assumptions on this subject with data or the studies of learned academics. But never stops anyone from commenting so it won't stop me.
Any course of action may make absolute sense, if only looked at from one perspective. The President has cabinet members who are charged with viewing any national policy issues from their own parochial point of view. Good Presidents, with good advisors, and good cabinet members form courses of action that form the optimal solution. Most likely there will be trade-offs. What economists favor may be bad from a national security perspective, or for good order in heavily impacted neighborhoods ill-equipped to assimilate overly generous immigration quotas..
Furthermore, too much, too fast, may alter the characteristics of the nation in a way objectionable to the prior inhabitants. If you don't think so, ask the American Indians. (I'm not trying to be funny).
Finally, an American centric point and American elitist point of view that I hold after years of international travel, rarely spent in "tourist havens". Democracy (or a representative Republic) requires a certain level of individual responsibility/accountability, a certain level of mistrust of centralized authority, a certain level of risk taking, and an irrational belief in the ability to overcome any obstacle.
I have been in countries where the local population has one of those by the bucket, but they are ALWAYS fatally weak in one of the others, or are strong in the first three but have an incredible fatalism and tolerance for the status quo.
I believe that America is becoming fatalistic and tolerating the status quo. I offer the current slate of Presidential candidates, elected Federal officials, journalistic ethics, and growing acceptance of governmental dependency. If this does not change, I fear "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" will be a failed, ridiculed, and "discredited" historical joke in less than 100 years.
Like I said; no supporting references, no empirical data and clever analysis, just a heartfelt belief.
Any course of action may make absolute sense, if only looked at from one perspective. The President has cabinet members who are charged with viewing any national policy issues from their own parochial point of view. Good Presidents, with good advisors, and good cabinet members form courses of action that form the optimal solution. Most likely there will be trade-offs. What economists favor may be bad from a national security perspective, or for good order in heavily impacted neighborhoods ill-equipped to assimilate overly generous immigration quotas..
Furthermore, too much, too fast, may alter the characteristics of the nation in a way objectionable to the prior inhabitants. If you don't think so, ask the American Indians. (I'm not trying to be funny).
Finally, an American centric point and American elitist point of view that I hold after years of international travel, rarely spent in "tourist havens". Democracy (or a representative Republic) requires a certain level of individual responsibility/accountability, a certain level of mistrust of centralized authority, a certain level of risk taking, and an irrational belief in the ability to overcome any obstacle.
I have been in countries where the local population has one of those by the bucket, but they are ALWAYS fatally weak in one of the others, or are strong in the first three but have an incredible fatalism and tolerance for the status quo.
I believe that America is becoming fatalistic and tolerating the status quo. I offer the current slate of Presidential candidates, elected Federal officials, journalistic ethics, and growing acceptance of governmental dependency. If this does not change, I fear "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" will be a failed, ridiculed, and "discredited" historical joke in less than 100 years.
Like I said; no supporting references, no empirical data and clever analysis, just a heartfelt belief.
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No open borders, that only invites economic strain on the host nation..immigrants can come here and there is a process, use it..
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PFC Jim Wheeler
Maj John Bell - I'm referring to a complete isolationist policy like I believe he was talking about.
An isolationist foreign or economic policy would cripple us as a nation, our economy relies too much on trade and, unfortunately, undocumented labor.
An isolationist foreign or economic policy would cripple us as a nation, our economy relies too much on trade and, unfortunately, undocumented labor.
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Maj John Bell
PFC Jim Wheeler - I absolutely agree with you. No one can argue that isolationism is solving North Korea's problems.
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SSG Steven Mangus
I never said isolationist, fortress America refers to only letting the most qualified, best and brightest in for a permanent stay..of course we cannot survive without trade and participation in the global economy..
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