Posted on Jan 24, 2019
‘Up or out’ is on its way out, and it’s time for ‘perform or out,' Army secretary says
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Wbich do you think is better for the Army? "Up or Out" or "Perform or Out"?
‘Up or out’ is on its way out, and it’s time for ‘perform or out,' Army secretary says
Posted from armytimes.comPosted in these groups: 
Promotions
Leadership
Promotions Leadership
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 16
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@CPT Adam Hill Not everyone is a leader, many people enjoy the comradie and purpose of the military and find a niche they can fill superbly.
An RP friend whose RP profile says zero about. him or his duties might be in a promotable status, ect.
No matter, he enjoys his assignments and work fellows.
Such individuals should be allowed to serve the Nation.
An RP friend whose RP profile says zero about. him or his duties might be in a promotable status, ect.
No matter, he enjoys his assignments and work fellows.
Such individuals should be allowed to serve the Nation.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
Not everyone is a leader... This is why I have long been an advocate for the return of Specialist ranks. I would have LOVED to be a SPC7. I CAN lead troops, I was even (reasonably) good at it. But I prefer responsibility for projects over responsibility for people.
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SSG (Join to see)
I agree, you might have an outstanding young man/woman who are very good at what they do and with todays system get moved out and promoted into something they fell uncomfortable with or really did not sign up for to begin with.
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SSG (Join to see)
Heck back after the civil war a soldier may enlist and retire never having gone past private, it took a decade for a 2nd Lt to make 1st Lt. Just throwing that perspective out there.
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MSG Stan Hutchison
SFC Casey O'Mally - As an old timer, I must agree with your comments about Specialist ratings. Being in Data Processing, I knew a number of good Spec/6 and Spec/7's. Almost every one of them were outstanding in their performance of their jobs, but most were not very good at leadership.
As to the other fields, I had a nephew that joined the Army to be a mechanic. Loved the work. But, when he made E6, Staff Sergeant, he told me he never got to get his hand dirty, he was too busy being an administrator. He just wanted to work on motors. He ended up getting out and going to work for the local Ford dealer as a mechanic. Back to what he loved.
So, no to the "up or out" policy.
As to the other fields, I had a nephew that joined the Army to be a mechanic. Loved the work. But, when he made E6, Staff Sergeant, he told me he never got to get his hand dirty, he was too busy being an administrator. He just wanted to work on motors. He ended up getting out and going to work for the local Ford dealer as a mechanic. Back to what he loved.
So, no to the "up or out" policy.
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Opening scene from Catch 22
What will happen in the next three years when the Army Combat fitness test forces out 10% of the active and Reserve component? The A/C Army is short 14,000 right now. We have a retro desire for World War 2 era pink and greens coming back that reminds me of Catch-22. What if we are any Catch-22 where are the personnel who are still pretty good are forced out and we end up having a conflict/war happen when we have a full mobilization required yet a severe personnel shortage? This is a conundrum for the ARNG and the USAR too.
https://youtu.be/x8rwDiAXKfY
https://youtu.be/x8rwDiAXKfY
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SPC (Join to see)
Almost as if a whole plane didn't crash right in front of them and they steady talking about some damn eggs lol. Good catch 22 example though!
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I like this on BOTH sides of the coin. If you are doing well, no need for promotion. This is exceptionally vital in some low density MOS's which have very few slots for senior NCOs. Essentially, unless you are top 2%, you are done at 20, because you aren't making SFC. And even if you make SFC, you DEFINITELY won't see MSG. (My old MOS, since discontinued had 3 E8 slots for the entire Army.)
But also, no more making rank and coasting. You need to keep proving yourself if you want to keep having a job.
But also, no more making rank and coasting. You need to keep proving yourself if you want to keep having a job.
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