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Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 3
Listen... you, I, and Gregory (among others) have been debating these topics for YEARS now on RP. Do you really think I'm an "angry and fearful" person? It's easier (and perhaps more productive) to stop posting other people's thoughts and opinions in general... and just call me out directly; since I am definitely the "target" of such articles. Why not just ask me, straight up, "Joshua, do you think homosexuality is morally wrong?" Then I could say, "Why yes, Chip... indeed I do; but neither do I need a law prohibiting it, nor do I see how one could/should be passed under our current Constitution." Similarly, you could ask, "Joshua, does your religion teach that a man should be head of his household?" I could then reply, "Certainly Chip... it does, and I sincerely hope my lovely wife would tell you that I am; but I certainly couldn't be without her consent, and more importantly... her help." You might also ask, "Joshua, do you believe in a literal 'hell', and do you think people who don't believe in Christ will go there?" I could then reply, "Well, yes Chip... I do; but frankly-I'm more concerned about not going there myself, and possibly helping others to avoid it than I am in trying to figure out whether a ninety year old Buddhist monk whose done nothing but selflessly serve others his whole life will."
Bottom line? Yes, there are traditionalist, orthodox (little "o") Christians such as myself living in the United States. We get up everyday and go about our lives as laborers, trades people, doctors, scientists, police officers, warriors, technicians, and public servants believing that there is a single, master Creator over all things. We "sin" each day in our own lives, and seek repentance and forgiveness for those sins. We try to raise our children to learn from the examples of the Old and New Testaments. We struggle with the complex questions of how the same God who sent His son to die in our place to save us... also commanded the Hebrews to put every living thing to the sword once. In the stories of these ancient conquests, we do not see "justification" for modern atrocity... but the awful consequences of human nature. In Christ's command that "he who is without sin, cast the first stone"... we see a constant reminder that we should look to our own faults before judging the faults of others.
But yes, we are deeply concerned that we live in a nation boasting the most advanced technologies ever devised... that never the less sees on average, 125,000 abortions per day. Truly, we are disturbed when we see middle-aged men leaving their wives and families to take up homosexual relationships, or couples broken up by divorce for no other reason than they've "outgrown each other". Absolutely, we are worried when our society moves in such directions that being unwilling to support "LGBT" lifestyle choices might very well be grounds for lawsuit...if not civil and criminal penalties.
Believe me Mr. Nagel... from where I sit, "you"-not "we" control society. In the last few months, I've seen people who have repeatedly sworn they'd face "anything" before abandoning gathering for worship... shutter the church doors on the orders of civil government-yet walk boldly into a Wal-Mart without a mask. Over the years, I've seen ministers quibble and equivocate on critical issues of doctrine as opposed to risking losing revenues from disenfranchised congregations. I've seen dedicated persons of faith shouted down and shamed on "social media" by their own children. In a very personal sense, I've seen my own family torn apart by these changes... and often been forced to be the "mediator" between generations who are watching everything they value destroyed... and those who are clamoring for yet more destructive change.
I cannot be "angry" because that would be futile. Neither can I be "fearful" because the last thing left to hold onto is my belief... my faith that God's will works all things together for good. Instead, I try (and God knows sometimes it's very difficult) to put rational words together to have discourse with those who hate us. I've prayed with Muslims and drank with humanists. I've "broken bread" at the tables of homosexual couples, and debated with atheists. I've not done any of that to "subvert" or "dominate"... but rather, in the hopes that in reaching out, some might temper their vengeance and resentment with a little understanding.
Now... having spent much too much time (and comment space), I'm certain I'll be hit with numerous comments and replies aimed at exploiting the "holes" in my logic, or the intricate "fallacies" in my arguments. So be it; I pay to play. Still, know this my friend... not a day goes by that I don't pray for the exceedingly rare and few times here on RP where occasionally... we find something to agree on as people who both proudly served our great nation.
Bottom line? Yes, there are traditionalist, orthodox (little "o") Christians such as myself living in the United States. We get up everyday and go about our lives as laborers, trades people, doctors, scientists, police officers, warriors, technicians, and public servants believing that there is a single, master Creator over all things. We "sin" each day in our own lives, and seek repentance and forgiveness for those sins. We try to raise our children to learn from the examples of the Old and New Testaments. We struggle with the complex questions of how the same God who sent His son to die in our place to save us... also commanded the Hebrews to put every living thing to the sword once. In the stories of these ancient conquests, we do not see "justification" for modern atrocity... but the awful consequences of human nature. In Christ's command that "he who is without sin, cast the first stone"... we see a constant reminder that we should look to our own faults before judging the faults of others.
But yes, we are deeply concerned that we live in a nation boasting the most advanced technologies ever devised... that never the less sees on average, 125,000 abortions per day. Truly, we are disturbed when we see middle-aged men leaving their wives and families to take up homosexual relationships, or couples broken up by divorce for no other reason than they've "outgrown each other". Absolutely, we are worried when our society moves in such directions that being unwilling to support "LGBT" lifestyle choices might very well be grounds for lawsuit...if not civil and criminal penalties.
Believe me Mr. Nagel... from where I sit, "you"-not "we" control society. In the last few months, I've seen people who have repeatedly sworn they'd face "anything" before abandoning gathering for worship... shutter the church doors on the orders of civil government-yet walk boldly into a Wal-Mart without a mask. Over the years, I've seen ministers quibble and equivocate on critical issues of doctrine as opposed to risking losing revenues from disenfranchised congregations. I've seen dedicated persons of faith shouted down and shamed on "social media" by their own children. In a very personal sense, I've seen my own family torn apart by these changes... and often been forced to be the "mediator" between generations who are watching everything they value destroyed... and those who are clamoring for yet more destructive change.
I cannot be "angry" because that would be futile. Neither can I be "fearful" because the last thing left to hold onto is my belief... my faith that God's will works all things together for good. Instead, I try (and God knows sometimes it's very difficult) to put rational words together to have discourse with those who hate us. I've prayed with Muslims and drank with humanists. I've "broken bread" at the tables of homosexual couples, and debated with atheists. I've not done any of that to "subvert" or "dominate"... but rather, in the hopes that in reaching out, some might temper their vengeance and resentment with a little understanding.
Now... having spent much too much time (and comment space), I'm certain I'll be hit with numerous comments and replies aimed at exploiting the "holes" in my logic, or the intricate "fallacies" in my arguments. So be it; I pay to play. Still, know this my friend... not a day goes by that I don't pray for the exceedingly rare and few times here on RP where occasionally... we find something to agree on as people who both proudly served our great nation.
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SGT Edward Wilcox
I admire you for the strength of your faith, but I fear that, among evangelical christians, you are a distinct minority.
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Opposition to BLM is bad? BLM is a Marxist organization. Marxist governments have killed over 100 million people in the last Century, tortured millions more and enslaved millions upon millions. Cullors, one of the founders of BLM supports Maduro In Venezuela. Right now Venezuela is forcing people into slavery. Yes, I think Christians should oppose BLM. Does the author even know some of the things BLM supports, such as destruction of the nuclear family, Maduro in Venezuela etc? Am I angry, no, am I apprehensive? yes. Am I fearful? no, because I believe what we are seeing is predicted and people have lived through worse. My apprehension is for my grand children.
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SGT Steve McFarland
Yes, I have a friend who lived through the NAZI holocaust. This is not the country I grew up in, even though I was born and raised in the U.S., and I cringe to think of what my grandkids will face when they grow up, particularly since my oldest daughter has a mixed-ethnicity family. She and her husband have adopted two children from Ethiopia.
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SGT Edward Wilcox
BLM may have leaders who are self proclaimed marxists, but it is not a marxist organization.
What government has been a party to the murder of 100s of millions of people? Or have you forgotten the genocide waged by our own government?
What government has been a party to the murder of 100s of millions of people? Or have you forgotten the genocide waged by our own government?
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