Posted on Apr 25, 2018
Why Do So Many Recent Veterans Dislike Police Officers?
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Was surprised to see an article like this in response to the Georgia protest incident. The opening statement is unfortunately misleading and exaggerated after seeing video of the incident. "The photos out of Newnan, Georgia, of local police pointing rifles at peaceful demonstrators over the weekend..."
These photos being shared on social media is unfortunately capturing the aftermath of a struggle between protesters and officers on the scene that resulted in officers drawing their weapons on them. Imagine a media source posting photos showing the demonstrators and officers in a struggle and the photo's caption was "demonstrators attack officers" or "officers attack demonstrators". I know Task and Purpose isn't a legit journalist source but it is a website that many veterans share, comment, and post from Facebook to RP.
This particular article is doing a disservice to the veteran community in my opinion. But it does raise a serious topic, the militarization of law enforcement.
These photos being shared on social media is unfortunately capturing the aftermath of a struggle between protesters and officers on the scene that resulted in officers drawing their weapons on them. Imagine a media source posting photos showing the demonstrators and officers in a struggle and the photo's caption was "demonstrators attack officers" or "officers attack demonstrators". I know Task and Purpose isn't a legit journalist source but it is a website that many veterans share, comment, and post from Facebook to RP.
This particular article is doing a disservice to the veteran community in my opinion. But it does raise a serious topic, the militarization of law enforcement.
Why Do So Many Recent Veterans Dislike Police Officers?
Posted from taskandpurpose.com
Law Enforcement
Protest
Journalism
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
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T&P like any other vet site has their questionable moments. I do see an issue with the police looking more and more like the military and have spoken my piece on that here. I was promptly "talked down to" a member who justified it by saying that the populace has access to bigger and stronger weapons, so should the police. True, but when you see cops who are wearing the uniforms of a particular branch, have patches that would make the layman look at them as if they're military, have the gear of the military who is to say they're not besides those who have served?
I don't care what department one is with, but there is no need to have any dept with a M2, a 240B, or a COUGAR, or any heavy weaponry close to that (certain rifles are debatable due to dual use), or even an armored vehicle of that level. Cops should be and look like the populace with a specialized group that can/will respond to specific events with more weaponry and even more specialized and specific training. They should not look like they're Marines or Soldiers even while in those positions, and there are plenty of SWAT and SRT's who look like cops, respond as cops, with either military or civilian specialized training.
If we cannot separate our police forces from the military EXCEPT those who are specialty tasked and trained, why not just allow the military itself (in NG form) to just be the "rapid response force" for the local PD? Citizens should not fear the police, and the police should not fear the populace.
I don't care what department one is with, but there is no need to have any dept with a M2, a 240B, or a COUGAR, or any heavy weaponry close to that (certain rifles are debatable due to dual use), or even an armored vehicle of that level. Cops should be and look like the populace with a specialized group that can/will respond to specific events with more weaponry and even more specialized and specific training. They should not look like they're Marines or Soldiers even while in those positions, and there are plenty of SWAT and SRT's who look like cops, respond as cops, with either military or civilian specialized training.
If we cannot separate our police forces from the military EXCEPT those who are specialty tasked and trained, why not just allow the military itself (in NG form) to just be the "rapid response force" for the local PD? Citizens should not fear the police, and the police should not fear the populace.
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MAJ James Woods
Great comment and observations. Have to say, whoever the RP member justified militarized police because the populace has access to bigger and stronger weapons is probably the same RP member that believes the 2nd Amendment allows for a civilian populace to legally possess those bigger and stronger weapons that law enforcement is concerned about. Talk about going full circle with a bad argument.
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SSG Warren Swan
It was an interesting conversation, but it boils down to the question ‘just because you can...should you’?
That applies to police too. Be cops, not a Sudo-Paramilitary force. When the lines become blurred, you’re no better than the third world countries you complain about and talk bad about. I don’t need to see a cop with their entire ERB on their chest. Don’t know of any airborne, air assault, halo, or SF civilian police units. Don’t need to see your CIB/CAB/combat ribbon. Take that mess off and leave it at home. Be the cop not SFC(can’t let go of the past) Cop. I’m gonna wait till the ‘I hate cops’ comments pop back up. I guess when you want accountability you have to hate those you want held accountable...especially when you don’t.
That applies to police too. Be cops, not a Sudo-Paramilitary force. When the lines become blurred, you’re no better than the third world countries you complain about and talk bad about. I don’t need to see a cop with their entire ERB on their chest. Don’t know of any airborne, air assault, halo, or SF civilian police units. Don’t need to see your CIB/CAB/combat ribbon. Take that mess off and leave it at home. Be the cop not SFC(can’t let go of the past) Cop. I’m gonna wait till the ‘I hate cops’ comments pop back up. I guess when you want accountability you have to hate those you want held accountable...especially when you don’t.
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I am a Veteran-Retired Army-and I happen to Love my Brothers and Sisters in Blue.
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MAJ James Woods
Same here, Margaret. I'm just concerned that our Brothers and Sisters in Blue are wearing too much camouflage green and brown and look more like a militia than law enforcement.
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I haven't dug into this story much, but I've seen these photos before. Do you have a link to the rest of the story where the protestors were doing something that would necessitate the level of force the officers are demonstrating?
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PFC Jim Wheeler
MAJ Bryan Zeski they were violating a state law that has been in effect for close to 70 years. No one had any issue with that law when it was used to stop the Klan from organizing publicly. Additionally, bandanas pulled over the face are masks by definition.
MAJ James Woods's article has more info about the whole thing.
I'm not sure why your tone seems so hostile. I'm not saying that they needed to use such a strong show of force to enforce this law; I'm only filling you in on why they were confronting them in the first place.
MAJ James Woods's article has more info about the whole thing.
I'm not sure why your tone seems so hostile. I'm not saying that they needed to use such a strong show of force to enforce this law; I'm only filling you in on why they were confronting them in the first place.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
PFC Jim Wheeler - If I'm coming across hostile, it's not intentional. I will admit to being anti-militarization of the police, and I think this is a product of that.
Regardless of how long a law is in place, that doesn't make it right or even Constitutional. I'm not sure what the use of force guidelines are in police departments these days, but do you think the use of force here was appropriate?
I was taught that you don't point a weapon at anything you don't have a reason to destroy or kill - the protestors in this case did nothing to warrant that level of aggression from the police.
Regardless of how long a law is in place, that doesn't make it right or even Constitutional. I'm not sure what the use of force guidelines are in police departments these days, but do you think the use of force here was appropriate?
I was taught that you don't point a weapon at anything you don't have a reason to destroy or kill - the protestors in this case did nothing to warrant that level of aggression from the police.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
MAJ Bryan Zeski I agree with your opinion on police militarization. I can't think of any compelling reason why our peace officers should be decked out in paramilitary uniforms and armed with military weaponry.
I'm not convinced that a no-mask law is unconstitutional, and I suspect that, if it was, it would have been challenged at some point in the past 70 years. It isn't as if it is never enforced. The article that was posted above stated that it was used as recently as 2016 IIRC. The first guarantees these citizens the right to speak freely, assemble peaceably, and petition their government (among other things), and a no-mask law does not restrict any of those freedoms.
I don't feel comfortable answering the question about appropriate use of force. I don't feel that I have enough information to speak about that. I'd wager that they didn't need to use so much force, but it is hard to know what was actually happening unless one was there, and I wasn't. I don't know what orders they had from their respective agencies, and I don't know how peaceful the anti-fa protesters actually were.
I'm not convinced that a no-mask law is unconstitutional, and I suspect that, if it was, it would have been challenged at some point in the past 70 years. It isn't as if it is never enforced. The article that was posted above stated that it was used as recently as 2016 IIRC. The first guarantees these citizens the right to speak freely, assemble peaceably, and petition their government (among other things), and a no-mask law does not restrict any of those freedoms.
I don't feel comfortable answering the question about appropriate use of force. I don't feel that I have enough information to speak about that. I'd wager that they didn't need to use so much force, but it is hard to know what was actually happening unless one was there, and I wasn't. I don't know what orders they had from their respective agencies, and I don't know how peaceful the anti-fa protesters actually were.
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COL William Oseles
MAJ Bryan Zeski - You may not see many masks in the picture but those were the individuals the police moved to arrest, and any that attempted to interfere. They were told in advance that face masks were against the law and would not be allowed.
Considering one of the stated purposes of the AntiFa group's was to take pictures, identify and out any of the Neo-Nazis to their employers it was hypocritical to attempt to hide their own identity.
If you look at AntiFa's history of violent protest it is the ones with the face masks that tend to be the violent ones that attack.
Should the Officers have pointed firearms at the protesters? No, but we also cannot tell from the picture or AntiFa statements what was being yelled at them either. Nor can we tell if the officer was loaded with lethal or non-lethal ammunition.Another photo showed the ones wearing the face masks were further into the mob.
But looking at that picture you can see the front line AntiFa members had their bandanas positioned to be pulled up to conceal their faces quickly. It looks like in that picture every one on the front two ranks was wearing a bandana around their neck.
Considering one of the stated purposes of the AntiFa group's was to take pictures, identify and out any of the Neo-Nazis to their employers it was hypocritical to attempt to hide their own identity.
If you look at AntiFa's history of violent protest it is the ones with the face masks that tend to be the violent ones that attack.
Should the Officers have pointed firearms at the protesters? No, but we also cannot tell from the picture or AntiFa statements what was being yelled at them either. Nor can we tell if the officer was loaded with lethal or non-lethal ammunition.Another photo showed the ones wearing the face masks were further into the mob.
But looking at that picture you can see the front line AntiFa members had their bandanas positioned to be pulled up to conceal their faces quickly. It looks like in that picture every one on the front two ranks was wearing a bandana around their neck.
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