Posted on Dec 21, 2017
Are National Guard soldiers civilians when off duty?
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I've heard UCMJ only applies when they're heading to or from drill, at drill, or on orders. UCMJ always applies to active duty.
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UCMJ
UCMJ
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
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No. National Guard Soldiers and Airmen are not civilians. They are commissioned and enlisted members of their respective armed service, hold security clearances, CAC cards, have service obligations, etc. Another respondent is correct that the UCMJ does not apply to anyone outside of the Title 10 umbrella, which includes Guard service members with the exception of their Federalization. However, states have a "State Code of Military Justice" that lightly mirrors it's federal counterpart.
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UCMJ applies from sign in to sign out for drills. It does not apply while traveling to or from MUTAs. While on orders it applies from the date on the orders until release on the orders. There have been a number of court cases that have determined this. These cases primarily dealt with injuries or fatalities to Reserve or Guard members who where traveling to or from drills. Benefits where denied because the courts found that the SM was not in a duty status at the time of the injury of death.
Also realize that signing out also constitutes a break in service. This precludes any UCMJ actions for conduct which occurred during one MUTA and another if the soldier was allowed to sign out and not retained on an active status. Commanders are trained in methods to prevent the break in service and will retain the SM in an active status for serious offenses.
Also realize that signing out also constitutes a break in service. This precludes any UCMJ actions for conduct which occurred during one MUTA and another if the soldier was allowed to sign out and not retained on an active status. Commanders are trained in methods to prevent the break in service and will retain the SM in an active status for serious offenses.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
SPC (Join to see) - As LTC Robert Gray points out, it gets a bit dicey legally to try to discipline a soldier for a crime commented when he wasn't on Title 32 orders. If nothing else, I would probably hit him with a bar to re-enlist and a civilian criminal conviction would certainly effect clearances.
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SPC (Join to see)
CPT Lawrence Cable - I can't go into details, I'm sure you understand why. Maybe it's different per State, but I have worked on separation packets for SM's committing Civilian crimes. Some are DUI's, some are AWOL (granted that's military related), some are... more serious. Of course the AWOL's only happen after missing more than 9 consecutive MUTA's, the DUI's only after multiples, and the more serious ones vary. I did work one one that required a separation board, as well. So of course that came down to the decision of the board before it goes up to the powers that be. I don't know, it seems all fairly standard with AR 135-178 combined with the State version of the UCMJ.
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LTC Robert Gray
CPT Lawrence Cable - Easiest way was to separate for unexcused absences while they where incarcerated.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
SPC (Join to see) - AR135-178 is Administrative Separation, so technically it isn't a legal action. As LTC Robert Gray pointed out, the easy way is to wait until they get their unexcused absences and process them, but if you look at the Reg, there are a number of reason that you can separate a soldier, including bad character, as long as you have it documented. So if your soldier gets caught being a child molester in the Civilian world, that would be grounds to administratively remove him from the National Guard.
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I have always thought that they where weekend warrior, and they are supposed to be for the governor of the of there the the state. I have always thought that they were supposed to help with that State Governor in time of disaster. I don't know how the President was able to take them to the Middle East. Now that being said, if they are being used for anything that from pealing potatoes, to front line troops. As such they should receive any and all benefits that are bestowed on any of the other brachs.
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SPC David Willis
I think I saw that its the governors of the state that essentially offer them up for money when it comes to standard deployments, but I could be (and probably am) wrong. NG can also be federalized but that's a big step in the wrong direction.
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SPC (Join to see)
The United States National Guard, both Army and Air Force has a dual role. We are subject to the orders of our respective States Governor, and we may also be Federalized into service alongside the Active Component not unlike the Reserves. Every Army National Guard Brigade Combat Team has deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan or both since the War began. Unlike the Reserves, the National Guard has Combat Units.
It is not incorrect to think of the National Guard as each States individual military or militia, and some States also have a separate militia in addition to the National Guard. Texas for example has a State Defense Force with a Land Component and Naval Component in addition to its Army and Air National Guards. The difference being the State Defense Force can not be Federalized and are only subject to the orders of the Governor.
The National Guard is required to have the same standards of training as the Active Component for both the Army and the Air Force respectively. Much of this is in regards to the Militia Act of 1903, the National Defense Act of 1916, and the Amendment of the Defense Act in 1933.
National Guard units are activated to augment and support the Active Component and the National Guard makes up more than 1/3 - 1/2 of the total Army at any given time in recent years.
It is not incorrect to think of the National Guard as each States individual military or militia, and some States also have a separate militia in addition to the National Guard. Texas for example has a State Defense Force with a Land Component and Naval Component in addition to its Army and Air National Guards. The difference being the State Defense Force can not be Federalized and are only subject to the orders of the Governor.
The National Guard is required to have the same standards of training as the Active Component for both the Army and the Air Force respectively. Much of this is in regards to the Militia Act of 1903, the National Defense Act of 1916, and the Amendment of the Defense Act in 1933.
National Guard units are activated to augment and support the Active Component and the National Guard makes up more than 1/3 - 1/2 of the total Army at any given time in recent years.
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SPC (Join to see)
Some fun facts
President Woodrow Wilson activated the Army National Guards of Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas to patrol the US-Mexican Border after the attack on Columbus, New Mexico by Pancho Villa in 1916.
World War I
- 3 out of 5 Divisions that entered the War were National Guard and 40% of the American combat forces in France were National Guard.
World War II
- All 18 National Guard Divisions saw combat in either the Pacific or European Theaters.
- The 29th Infantry Division which was made up of National Guard Units stormed Normandy in Operation Overlord. They would advance through France and into Germany.
Korea
- 140,000 National Guardsmen served in the Korean War
Gulf War
- 63,000 National Guardsmen served in the Gulf War
- They would also see service in Bosnia and Kosovo
War on Terror
- 300,000 and increasing National Guardsmen have served in the War on Terror in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and Africa.
Of our 45 Presidents 21 have served in the Militia or National Guard most recently President Bush who served in the Texas Air National Guard.
The Vietnam Era was a low point for the National Guard, President Johnson relied on the Draft to augment the Active Component so people would join the National Guard and Reserves in an attempt to not deploy to Vietnam. Despite this Guard Units were called up for deployment and individual Guardsmen volunteered to be attached to Active Units and deploy with them. 13,000 Guardsmen saw service in Vietnam. In addition to this the Guard was activated multiple times to support Law Enforcement to quell riots involving the War and Segregation.
After the Vietnam War and the end of the Draft, a total force policy went into effect requiring the consideration of all Army Units whether Active, National Guard, or Reserves to be considered one force. With this policy the United States would rely more on the Guard and Reserves and many hoped that it would avoid the use of another Draft to augment the Active Component.
President Woodrow Wilson activated the Army National Guards of Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas to patrol the US-Mexican Border after the attack on Columbus, New Mexico by Pancho Villa in 1916.
World War I
- 3 out of 5 Divisions that entered the War were National Guard and 40% of the American combat forces in France were National Guard.
World War II
- All 18 National Guard Divisions saw combat in either the Pacific or European Theaters.
- The 29th Infantry Division which was made up of National Guard Units stormed Normandy in Operation Overlord. They would advance through France and into Germany.
Korea
- 140,000 National Guardsmen served in the Korean War
Gulf War
- 63,000 National Guardsmen served in the Gulf War
- They would also see service in Bosnia and Kosovo
War on Terror
- 300,000 and increasing National Guardsmen have served in the War on Terror in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, and Africa.
Of our 45 Presidents 21 have served in the Militia or National Guard most recently President Bush who served in the Texas Air National Guard.
The Vietnam Era was a low point for the National Guard, President Johnson relied on the Draft to augment the Active Component so people would join the National Guard and Reserves in an attempt to not deploy to Vietnam. Despite this Guard Units were called up for deployment and individual Guardsmen volunteered to be attached to Active Units and deploy with them. 13,000 Guardsmen saw service in Vietnam. In addition to this the Guard was activated multiple times to support Law Enforcement to quell riots involving the War and Segregation.
After the Vietnam War and the end of the Draft, a total force policy went into effect requiring the consideration of all Army Units whether Active, National Guard, or Reserves to be considered one force. With this policy the United States would rely more on the Guard and Reserves and many hoped that it would avoid the use of another Draft to augment the Active Component.
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Cpl Scott McCarroll
I guess I wasn't Drafted, however I knew I was going, that is to join, once in I couldn't get a do over lol
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