Posted on Jun 29, 2014
What happened to standards and good order and discipline?
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So rumor on the street is that USARC will NOT be processing any discharges and flooding units with IRR Soldiers and AC Soldiers in order to finally hit the 205,000 mark for the first time ever. In order to hit this mark retention will be able to flood the units with Soldiers that are flagged without commander's approval.
What happened to standards and good order and discipline? There is a reason that Soldier is flagged. Heck I get Soldiers who should have been flagged or discharged and then it is my problem to deal with as they come up hot on urine analysis then do not show up. It is then my issue because someone took the lazy way out. Let alone now I cannot send them to MOS schools as they are flagged and they are worthless to us because they cannot go to AT or deploy with the unit. So what sense does it make to open the flood gates in order to ensure we keep our funding if we cannot fill our current ranks with the right people?
I would rather be in a smaller army...say 300 Spartans...and be able to train them and whoop ass doing our jobs than get 205,000 "Soldiers" as we all know we have people who do not even show up now and we are no where near that number.
What are your thoughts?
What happened to standards and good order and discipline? There is a reason that Soldier is flagged. Heck I get Soldiers who should have been flagged or discharged and then it is my problem to deal with as they come up hot on urine analysis then do not show up. It is then my issue because someone took the lazy way out. Let alone now I cannot send them to MOS schools as they are flagged and they are worthless to us because they cannot go to AT or deploy with the unit. So what sense does it make to open the flood gates in order to ensure we keep our funding if we cannot fill our current ranks with the right people?
I would rather be in a smaller army...say 300 Spartans...and be able to train them and whoop ass doing our jobs than get 205,000 "Soldiers" as we all know we have people who do not even show up now and we are no where near that number.
What are your thoughts?
Posted in these groups: 
Customs and Courtesies
Discipline
Customs and Courtesies Discipline
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 3
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Here go our metrics!
Sir, we are currently seeing the problem children taking up more time than they are worth. Some are worth the time, because they will become productive, long-term members. There are many who are just working their way out, or who have stopped showing up all together. To say that we can not process them out means we are only making the 205,000 on paper only. Further, any more headaches or problem children coming from IRR or AC, just add to the inflation of the number.
If the Army wants 205,000 USAR Soldiers, then they need to be 205,000 ready to go to combat or otherwise honorably serving Soldiers. 180,000 Soldiers with 25,000 S-bags, equates a force that is going to be understrength and under-performing despite the strength numbers showing full-strength.
We can use our Company as an example. We are authorized 158. How many of those slots are occupied by joes who are:
-medically unavailable
-Non-DMOSQ because they can't meet the standards
-fail APFT consisitently over a long period of time
-are awaiting administrative processing for illicit drug usage
-are undergoing civilian legal issues that could result in administrative issues
-otherwise don't need to be there due to any number of circumstances
We know what our ECT number will be because of this. If we get an influx of other Soldiers who may fall in these categories AND we can not process out those who need to be gone, we are doing nothing but bringing the ratio down and decreasing our capabilities.
Frankly, this is a diservice to the Soldiers, the Command group, the Army, the American public, and those who may rely on the USAR for mission completion.
Sir, we are currently seeing the problem children taking up more time than they are worth. Some are worth the time, because they will become productive, long-term members. There are many who are just working their way out, or who have stopped showing up all together. To say that we can not process them out means we are only making the 205,000 on paper only. Further, any more headaches or problem children coming from IRR or AC, just add to the inflation of the number.
If the Army wants 205,000 USAR Soldiers, then they need to be 205,000 ready to go to combat or otherwise honorably serving Soldiers. 180,000 Soldiers with 25,000 S-bags, equates a force that is going to be understrength and under-performing despite the strength numbers showing full-strength.
We can use our Company as an example. We are authorized 158. How many of those slots are occupied by joes who are:
-medically unavailable
-Non-DMOSQ because they can't meet the standards
-fail APFT consisitently over a long period of time
-are awaiting administrative processing for illicit drug usage
-are undergoing civilian legal issues that could result in administrative issues
-otherwise don't need to be there due to any number of circumstances
We know what our ECT number will be because of this. If we get an influx of other Soldiers who may fall in these categories AND we can not process out those who need to be gone, we are doing nothing but bringing the ratio down and decreasing our capabilities.
Frankly, this is a diservice to the Soldiers, the Command group, the Army, the American public, and those who may rely on the USAR for mission completion.
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CPT (Join to see)
I wish there was a good plan. Frankly, I think there needs to be separation authority at lower levels for things that are blatant, like:
-Drug use
-Non-participation
-APFT Failure
-Certain legal issues
This would reduce the paperwork at higher levels for them to review the more complex cases.
These slots are often held for years by Soldiers who are Non-Available and not performing. Getting these Soldiers out faster would help get available strength metrics up and should improve overall performance.
-Drug use
-Non-participation
-APFT Failure
-Certain legal issues
This would reduce the paperwork at higher levels for them to review the more complex cases.
These slots are often held for years by Soldiers who are Non-Available and not performing. Getting these Soldiers out faster would help get available strength metrics up and should improve overall performance.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
Yes. having your hands tied by command is a drag. In my day it was all about maintaining the numbers. You'd start the discharge paperwork after 3 consecutive missed drills then State would make you start the count over because the soldier called someone they new over my head and gave them the "I'll be there next drill, I promise routine". So they'd show up for 2 drills and disappear again. 6 f--king months and I'm no further to getting rid of this pog than I was when I started!
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Well Brian,you know all ready that you are in one of the most rewarding yet thankless jobs in the USAR/NG. No matter how much you want to, you are not allowed to sacrifice your numbers for quality, because the system is designed to fail if you do. You lose troops, you fold flags, you fold flags you lose AGR slots, you lose AGR slots, the state loses federal funding.
Numbers unfortunately take priority over standards, been there, done it, lost many an argument over it. There are a lot of good NCOs and soldiers out there so you have to base your command around them and their abilities. Keep your hair cut short because the pogs & sh!thouse lawyers, are going to make you pull what's left of it out. Try not to let the 10% that you spend 90% of your time on get to you. If you've got a good command climate established and you are doing some good training, you'll hopefully turn some of those soldiers into productive, participating members.
Hopefully your Bn is giving you the backing you need to run your company to the best of your ability and they are working with you to get a lot of the flags, unflagged. I'm probably asking questions that you already have solutions for but I'm going to ask any way. I'm guessing the majority are weight & APFT? Do you have a master fitness qualified LT or NCO to run that program and get that off your direct plate? How is your retention? if you're doing better than 1 loss for 1 gain that's better than most. Do you have a sponsorship program to get your new soldiers into the fold and acclimated ASAP when they arrive. seems like a lot, I was overwhelmed by this as an M-Day myself. I think you're in a similar boat because didn't you say your AGR job is at Bn and not as the Co CDR?
Do what you can to drive the core of competent leaders and soldiers to success. That should get you through to a successful command. Hope this helps.
Numbers unfortunately take priority over standards, been there, done it, lost many an argument over it. There are a lot of good NCOs and soldiers out there so you have to base your command around them and their abilities. Keep your hair cut short because the pogs & sh!thouse lawyers, are going to make you pull what's left of it out. Try not to let the 10% that you spend 90% of your time on get to you. If you've got a good command climate established and you are doing some good training, you'll hopefully turn some of those soldiers into productive, participating members.
Hopefully your Bn is giving you the backing you need to run your company to the best of your ability and they are working with you to get a lot of the flags, unflagged. I'm probably asking questions that you already have solutions for but I'm going to ask any way. I'm guessing the majority are weight & APFT? Do you have a master fitness qualified LT or NCO to run that program and get that off your direct plate? How is your retention? if you're doing better than 1 loss for 1 gain that's better than most. Do you have a sponsorship program to get your new soldiers into the fold and acclimated ASAP when they arrive. seems like a lot, I was overwhelmed by this as an M-Day myself. I think you're in a similar boat because didn't you say your AGR job is at Bn and not as the Co CDR?
Do what you can to drive the core of competent leaders and soldiers to success. That should get you through to a successful command. Hope this helps.
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LTC (Join to see)
Sir, roger. I am tracking with most of that. We need slots to the master fitness. The priority though is getting my NCOs DMOSQ as many of them came from active component already or other units and need to reclass first.
Yes flags coming into unit are generally APFT. If I can talk to a Soldier and know where they stand I will assess if they can realistically pass and then be able to be unflagged and go to school. However, who knows what flags they are talking about. They may be due to NPs or other craziness that will just mean more paperwork for us to do as they will not show or have other issues at my unit.
But when the dust settles (and before) I will continue to do what I am doing and do what I can to better the Army in the small part of it that I can influence and carry out all orders given to me.
Yes flags coming into unit are generally APFT. If I can talk to a Soldier and know where they stand I will assess if they can realistically pass and then be able to be unflagged and go to school. However, who knows what flags they are talking about. They may be due to NPs or other craziness that will just mean more paperwork for us to do as they will not show or have other issues at my unit.
But when the dust settles (and before) I will continue to do what I am doing and do what I can to better the Army in the small part of it that I can influence and carry out all orders given to me.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
Your a man ahead of my time!
Yeah that's a tough one, we got very few of those, because other than a Rhode Islander coming off AD or someone attending the Navy War College, who really PCSs here. We're predominantly MP & FA, some AV and a few other units all with low density MOSs with little rank advancement. Somehow it worked. My commo guys all had to secondary as MPs simply to make rank. then of course there's MTOE roulette to make the promotions work with the slots you have available. fun, fun, fun!!
Yeah that's a tough one, we got very few of those, because other than a Rhode Islander coming off AD or someone attending the Navy War College, who really PCSs here. We're predominantly MP & FA, some AV and a few other units all with low density MOSs with little rank advancement. Somehow it worked. My commo guys all had to secondary as MPs simply to make rank. then of course there's MTOE roulette to make the promotions work with the slots you have available. fun, fun, fun!!
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There are no such things as standards. Everyone likes to say and think that everyone is being held to the same standards, but the true thing is it's who you know not what you know. I don't care if you are the hardest worker and show up first and leave last if you are not in the (IN) group others will get the recognition you deserve. If I could teach everyone a life lesson it would be life is not fair. I have received some of this undeserved praise but I have also worked my butt off and people don't care. Good luck
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