Posted on Jan 20, 2016
COL Mikel J. Burroughs
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Is there a perception that discipline is better in one service versus another?

The real question is: Does one service branch feel they are more disciplined then other service branches and they maintain that discipline better/longer?

Looking for professional feedback from all the service branches on how they feel their discipline training differs from each of the other services and who get's the most discipline or is it the same across all service branches?

Has it changed over the last 60 years since Vietnam or prior?

It is better or worse?

It is based on the different generations?

The reason I ask this question is because of the responses that I received about an incident (involving a Marine not removing or putting his cover on too early before leaving the MCX). It involved a very young Marine, Junior Officer Marine, and a SgtMaj (got it right this time) and in most of the Reponses many Marines could fathom that a Marine would ever do such a thing.

In some instances, there were Marines that did and had similar experiences. Likewise, there were other service branch members that indicated the same thing (Impossible) and then there were those who had come across similar incidents and shared their experiences.

I'm not calling out anyone - stay focused on the questions above - thanks
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 61
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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The issue is that the definition of Discipline VARIES wildly between Services and even "Branches" within the Services. Combine that with societal changes, and "nostalgia" (our flawed memory) make us perceive levels of discipline differently.

A Marine looking at an Airman is going to view their Discipline completely differently, but their focus is completely different. When I hear Soldiers talking about going to parade rest and attention for NCOs & Officers respectively, it's just a foreign concept. That doesn't mean I'm not respectful when speaking to them, just that I view that step as unnecessary and nothing to do with "discipline." However, there are little things Marines do that I'm sure other services thing are bat#$%^# crazy that we consider "discipline."

The example I try to use is Sailors on ship are some of the hardest working people I've ever seen. The demand is just constant. Compare that to a Marine on ship, and we look lazy as hell. We're "cargo." Now take Doc. We love Doc. Marines will kill for Doc. But Doc is Navy, and there's a huge difference between what we expect of Doc and what we expect of Marines regarding a lot of "discipline" issues. Things like "shaggy" haircuts, and "relaxed" attitudes. Now Doc is one of us. I won't ever let anyone say otherwise... but there is a different "expectation."
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
>1 y
I only know of one guy getting "hanged". He was a a young Airmen who beat a Courts martial for being AWOL but, got "hanged" for a loose button. In the AF we were mostly after a good butt chewing. (all ranks). I always felt a person should not get "hung" for something we did at that age but, did not get caught. Now that everything is politically correct, you can't say %%$$ without being called out.
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CW2 Carl Swanson
CW2 Carl Swanson
8 y
Definition of discipline that I learned in Boot Camp in 1988 "Instant obedience to orders"
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Lt Col Commander
Lt Col (Join to see)
>1 y
Well said... I worked with 1MEF in Helmand, Afghanistan in 2010 & 2011... some of the toughest dudes I ever met, but very-very different from my own service... Some see discipline as compliance or perhaps professional "PC" behaviors... others see it as more of a focus of effort and a dedication to duty. Pretty hard to answer this one, but I had to vote up AF because... you know... I'm biased! LOL!

I've also worked side-by-side with the Navy, Marines and Army in the past 25+ years of my service (sorry coast guard, never had the pleasure)... and I loved serving besides every one of them (even the bad apples in different branches taught me that discipline is largely an individual personal trait - not a service trait)...
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LTC Joe Likar
LTC Joe Likar
>1 y
Discipline does vary based on perception and circumstances and is evaluated by hose in charge. That being said, discipline during the Civil War was based on drills and ones' ability to charge a line of enemy soldiers. It has been said that most soldiers facing that kind of warfare were not so much disciplined as the were more concerned about letting their fellow soldiers down and being a coward in the unit. In most basic training today, the drill instructors are very hard on recruits by setting standards. This is not discipline but learning. As far as the question goes, all services have a level of discipline appropriate to that service. While the perception the Marines are more disciplined than other branched is a misnomer. They have been taught, from the beginning the Marines have one mission, to win the battle, and strive to accomplish that mission.
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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One thing the Marines do differently is that they burn the concept of rank, discipline, and following orders into Marines from the very beginning and make it happen in the line units. Everyone is accountable to each other, and every Marine is going to square away a messed up individual and do what needs to be done without being asked because they are part of a team.
Got to hand it to them, albeit grudgingly.
I have to spend a lot of time explaining "why" something needs doing and a certain way.
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Cpl Glynis Sakowicz
Cpl Glynis Sakowicz
>1 y
SSG(P) Mick Sobczak - Same here, by apparently the same person. Sad that a person would do this, and yet not give his reasoning, which is only good manners, as far as I'm concerned, but hey. apparently not everyone has manners...
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
1SG (Join to see)
>1 y
Cpl Glynis Sakowicz - Generally the hit and run types are new to the site and not familiar with the ground rules. I'm fine with getting down votes if I say something off-base or even if they disagree with me... just say why. I've even made a retraction or two when it was appropriate.
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SSgt Utilities Chief
SSgt (Join to see)
8 y
I would agree if it was 12 years ago, but over the years I have seen the discipline in young Marines, especially on the AD side of things degrade faster than it did before the 2010's.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
Sgt Joseph Baker
>1 y
In the Marines they explain to you during training why things must be done a certain way. Once trained, you are expected to follow orders and your training, nobody is going to debate with you. Don't follow orders and something will be done that you won't enjoy. There are quite a few former Marines who changed service branch for a more casual atmosphere. There are very few people coming the other way, unless of course they have watched Marines for some time and have decided that they want that challenge and the 'snap-and-pop' of the Marines. My son in the Army is posted at an inter-service post and says that yeah, the Marines definitely stand out on base, like every stroll around the block is a parade for the Commandant, how squared away their uniforms are, even the cammies pressed crisp; and their military bearing overall, and their cock-sureness. Discipline and details is what the Corps is famous for, as well as their ferocity in combat. I attended my son's basic training graduation, and listened to all the soldiers that had just graduated who were all about how to get around the rules, they were already letting their uniformity slip, wearing their covers crooked, using their Army gloves (that's Marine speak for hands in pockets) and stuff like that. My son was gratefully on the side of soldiers whose uniform looked like they were proud to wear it, and I could see in his eyes what he thought about the others that had already set their course to be the minimum and that it bothered him that I was there to see it. He is a Sergeant now, and last I visited him, he seems like he still shows pride in how his uniform looks. He commented that he thought that overall the uniforms of Marines looked better, but he at least makes what he has look the best he can. When you attend visitor Sunday and graduation for Marines, they all look like they are proud of every aspect of being a Marine, and most continue that same bearing for all their time in the Corps, because they don't want to be the guy who makes the Corps look bad. So, that is why I believe the Corps has proven to have the strongest discipline, and it's internal.
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PO2 Steven Erickson
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As a squid, I've got to hand it to Uncle Sammie's Misguided Children. And geez, they got the coolest dress uniform (sorry, Army).

Now, it's quite possible that what I'm attributing as discipline is, in fact, merely fanaticism... lol
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PO2 Steven Erickson
PO2 Steven Erickson
>1 y
MCPO Roger Collins

"... had the Navy been willing to assign me to a carrier..."

HERETIC!!!! BLASPHEMER!!!! TRAITOROUS WRETCH!!!!! BAD MONKEY!!!! NO BANANA!!!!

I'm dying a little inside, Master Chief!!!
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
>1 y
PO2 Steven Erickson - Actually, it was more E-3/4s that caught my attention. Normally, the E-5s knew their jobs, but had in inordinate amount of mouth, if you can imagine that.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
>1 y
PO2 Steven Erickson - Ask some of our skimmer friends about how an E-9 lives on a bird farm.
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PFC James Craft
PFC James Craft
>1 y
GySgt Carl Rumbolo - The four Generals were on a ship when a Seaman fell overboard, the Army General saying "I have the baddest private " told a private to jump in and save the Seamen and he jump! The Air Force General said "I have the baddest Airman" as he ordered his Airman to jump in save Army and Navy E-1's, and he jumped in! The Marine Commandant said "No! I have the bravest private! I told him to jump overboard and save Navy, Army and Air Force and he told me to go f**k myself!!"
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