Posted on Sep 27, 2014
SFC Stephen Hester
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It's apparent from some of our discussions that military customs and courtesies evoke strong emotions within our community. Just look at the debates over whether or not a PFC should stand at parade rest for a SPC or whether or not a 2LT should salute a 1LT. Now we have the styrofoam salute flap. So, are our customs and courtesies traditions to be honored or just inconveniences that we are required to observe?
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Responses: 9
PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
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I vote for an Honored Tradition. Tradition is a good thing - it ties ones actions to the past.
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PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
PO1 (Join to see)
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LOL...as an enlisted man I won't argue with that one AT ALL! However, I know a buttload of ringknockers that will claim it's their birthright!
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
>1 y
Honestly, I have found the Navy's seperation of ranks to be much more rigid than the Army. If you would mention a rank segregated chow hall you'd get a confused look from a Soldier, but the Navy holds fast to the segregated officer wardroom, the "Goat Locker" for Chiefs and enlisted mess for everyone else. I guess when you sleep in the mud next to your soldiers, sitting down and eating besides them is not a big deal. But I cans see where the confined space on a ship at sea may cause that desire for seperation.....
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PO1 Donald Hammond
PO1 Donald Hammond
8 y
LTC Paul Labrador - Don't forget the 1st Class mess. :) But I was on submarines and there wasn't that much separation. There was the Wardroom and the enlisted mess. Of course in the enlisted mess was a Chiefs' table. It would be funny when a junior officer would decide not to wait for "tradition" and come eat in the enlisted mess. We would welcome them with open arms. Just not at the Chiefs' table.
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PO1 Donald Hammond
PO1 Donald Hammond
8 y
Okay. Traditions like "tacking on dolphins" which could cause injury (and death) needed to be walked back but now it has gone too far where just touching the dolphins or new rank insignia can get you thrown in the brig. Blue nose, golden shellback are now meaningless. Some traditions are just pure hazing others have real meaning. Hard to separate them sometimes.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
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They should be and always practiced as honored traditions, but I gather that not everyone will agree, especially those who like to duck indoors at 1655:55!
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MSG Wade Huffman
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We definitely need to continue to emphasize our customs, courtesies AND our traditions. Many of these things have been put 'on the back burner' to a degree during the past decade (plus) of deployments and high optempo. Time to start bringing them back again.
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SFC Stephen Hester
SFC Stephen Hester
>1 y
I think the Army has begun to lose sight of those and it starts in Basic Training. There's very little education on the Army's history, traditions, values...and it shows.
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MSG Wade Huffman
MSG Wade Huffman
>1 y
SFC Stephen Hester , sadly, I would have to agree with you. In the mean time, we will have to rely on those NCOs still serving to lead from the front on this.
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SFC Marcus Belt
SFC Marcus Belt
8 y
I disagree, but only to a certain extent. The Airborne community very much embraces its distinct culture and (albeit) short history.

My other consideration is this: is there a tangible benefit to remembering history (someone's going to quote George Santayana, guaranteed) apart from operational/tactical lessons learned? Because I know that the 505th PIR jumped early into Normandy, does that make me more effective as a Soldier or a leader today?

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't but tradition for traditions' sake does not seem logical.
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MAJ Cathy Baumbusch
MAJ Cathy Baumbusch
4 y
SFC Stephen Hester - I began to see an erosion of those values in the late 90s, early 2000s with the onset of "Consideration of Others" and "An Army of One." I resented those programs as a junior officer at the time because I thought to myself: do we really have to be told to respect the humanity of our subordinates? I thought that was a given. Isn't that what "taking care of Soldiers" is all about? I always saw my Soldiers as human beings and treated them with dignity and respect. I asked myself, what leadership failures did we have that prompted that program? I was taught that you have to earn the respect of your Soldiers by being out front and setting a good example, and letting them know that you really care about them as individuals. And you have to actually really care about them as individuals! The fact that there were leaders out there that didn't and it prompted these programs and slogans really got under my craw. Unfortunately a lot of Soldiers started to equate respect with basic military courtesy. It's a slippery slope IMHO when you ignore the lack of military courtesy and tradition. But Soldiers (and junior officers) have to understand and value the "why" behind it. And that is no longer being taught.
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