Posted on Dec 2, 2014
MAJ Field Auditor
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APFT Failure & Noncompliance guidelines were updated this November. As a Brigade Nutrition/Fitness SME, I believe this new slide deck makes the process easier.

What has your experience been with soldiers who never seem to pass the test?
Posted in these groups: P542 APFT
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Responses: 16
SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
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MAJ (Join to see) Ma'am, I had a Soldier when I deployed who had failed APFT and just as separation proceedings started he would pass. When we deployed, I held him to a standard. He passed the APFT and met the guidelines in AR 600-9 for body fat. As his 1SG I felt it was my duty to help this Soldier grow beyond his own limitations. During counseling it was determined many previous 1SGs promised this Soldier a promotion which he never received and he became disenchanted. Once he passed two APFTs I boarded him and recommended to the CDR that he be promoted. The CDR agreed (knew the Soldiers history well) and he was promoted. This Soldier has maintained his PT program and Height and Weight and has now been promoted another grade.

I related that story to say, each case is still different. We must know our Soldiers, train our Soldiers, and in some cases develop individual plans which allow the Soldier that latitude to succeed. As a CDR you know the burden rests with you. As 1SG I make recommendations, but the responsibility (the blame line) is yours. That said, if Soldiers refuse, malinger, or simply cannot pass APFT, with no injury or illness which would preclude it, then they must be processed out.

Thank you for this question and the opportunity to respond.
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SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
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MAJ (Join to see) Ma'am, yes and post retirement remain in contact with many. The highest compliment ever paid is an NCO, WO, Officer, or Soldier who calls after you have PCSd and says "could you help me with ....., I know you will provide sound guidance." I was lucky enough to have Soldiers who found value in what we accomplished. Thank you for noticing.
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COL Kurt Chebatoris
COL Kurt Chebatoris
>1 y
SFC Finck. In the current discussions around recruitment and retention you demonstrated the Leadership portion of the formula for success. Leadership + Training = Retention. And retention plus training equals recruitment! But seeing as this is a discussion around APFTs..... The fact that the separation process can be started sooner will hopefully initiate not just an easier separation of Soldiers who should go, but perhaps a faster recognition of Soldiers who can be retained with just a little bit of positive leadership attention.
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SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS
>1 y
COL Kurt Chebatoris Sir, thank you for your salient comments. My hope, post retirement, is that Soldiers will be viewed on a whole person concept and the leadership traits which were shared and passed to me through my fortunate career will be utilized by others.

Thank you very much for sharing such a valid and experienced position and for allowing me to share with you my view. Every Soldier worth recruiting is worth leading. Again, thank you.
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SPC Water Treatment Specialist
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
after failing my 1st apft i passed the 2nd one but they told me it was diagnostic. i took another a week after and passed but they said it was nullified cuz other soldiers complained they ran extra lap. i was made to take another one which i ended up running the snow and i failed my run by 16sec. my commander has initiated chapter process but i have not signed any paperwork yet cuz i asked to talk to him but i have not gotten the chance yet. i ask what's next thing to do?
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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I had a Soldier who failed every PT test since AIT. As noted elsewhere, it was virtually impossible to separate a Soldier for this reason during the height of the wars, so he stayed a PFC for five years. No matter what I tried to motivate him, he was always 30 seconds too slow, and/or 3-5 sit ups short.
A year ago, we were mobilizing to go the JTF-HOA. I pulled his NCOs in and explained to them in no uncertain terms that they were going to remedy this problem while we were at JBMDL. In the meantime, we were going to do organized PT for everyone until everyone was a go on PT. He wasn't the only no go, but he was the one that no one thought would pass.
His NCOs brought him to the gym every afternoon. They ran him all over post. They gave him a little "extra love" between training sessions.

Five weeks later, by God he passed. I never saw a troop more happy to pin on SPC rank.

I am glad that he wasn't thrown out. He might not be a career Soldier, but I know that reaching the goals he had when he enlisted, to deploy and accomplish the mission, will be carried with him for life.
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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For me, honestly it comes down to whether or not a Soldier is making an effort to improve. We all know stuff happens. Injuries, accidents, home front troubles all can lead to a bad day on the start line. I've always felt that if the Soldier made the effort, they would meet the standard eventually.
If they just quit on me, despite encouragement from their NCOs, I have no issue sending them packing.
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MAJ Field Auditor
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This is so true. The bottom line isn't how high one scores, but in whether they put in the time and tried. Not all of us are cheetahs. We just have to strive for our own personal best.
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SGT Michael Glenn
SGT Michael Glenn
>1 y
Back in the day we had what was known as CCF, Corrective Custody Facility. This was a program that dealt with soldiers JUST like this one who were worth retaining but either didnt meet standards or had oopsed somehow but the command wanted to give a 2nd chance.It was a mini boot camp and at the end of it 99% of the soldiers were sent back to the units a better soldier. Does this still exist???
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MAJ Rene De La Rosa
MAJ Rene De La Rosa
>1 y
SGT Michael Glenn not that I am aware of. All of this is on the company commander, who finds a top strength NCO who can devote some time to this.
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LTC Critical Care Nurse
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How will this be applied to the reserves? 80% of the Army health care strength, is in the reserves. Being a soldier healthcare I can say we are not typically known as PT studs. Our one weekend a month isn't typically enough to keep us in shape so 80-90% of our fitness training is done on personal time. Valuable surgeons, OR nurses, ICU & ER nurses, and other personnel who take many years to train and become competent, and are not easily replaced, and in many cases are in high demand by the Army.
Will you apply the same standards to them, as an 11B infantry? How willing will the Army be to kick out a full bird COL neurosurgeon with 20 years of operating room experience because he/she failed a APFT test?
If you will not kick the neurosurgeon out after two fails, or whatever you set the standard at, then you can not be an advocate for one standard.
Does the surgeon really need to run fast, shoot straight, or carry a heavy load? Or do you want him to cut straight and true around the brain and spine?
----Just being the devils advocate----
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LCDR Rob Rosenbaum
LCDR Rob Rosenbaum
9 y
Major, I witnessed this about 15 years ago. One of our neurosurgeons opted to fail his PRT and expected removal, instead since he was still under contract, he did not receive his bonus. I'm in favor of ONE standard. I behooves us all to be physically fit and prepared. Those who cannot meet standards are free to leave unless they owe an obligation, in which case they are free to remain in the rear and provide support without their bonus. Actively pursuing the release of those unable meet standards is the best line of action.
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LTC Critical Care Nurse
LTC (Join to see)
9 y
I personally favor ONE standard, my problem is will the ONE standard be upheld for all?
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SFC S1 Personnel Nco
SFC (Join to see)
6 y
Hmm I’m a staff sergeant and not a brain surgeon. If I failed a pt test once it will reflect on my ncoer and I will be qmped and eventually kicked out, and if I fail twice will get chaptered. I’m also under contract obligation and not in-depth yet. Also I don’t have a bonus to lose. I know what MAJ Lance is getting at. Comparing results above doesn’t sound like one standard. On the contrary sounds like a double standard if you ask me.
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MAJ Rene De La Rosa
MAJ Rene De La Rosa
>1 y
LCDR Rob Rosenbaum they hurt him in the pocketbook, something he did not expect. I am sure he passed his PT test the next time around.
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