Posted on Apr 9, 2015
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Over the past few days and weeks, I been batting around this idea of why people either falsify their military records or just make up whatever lies to pass themselves off as someone they are not. We have had plenty of discussions about picking apart their uniforms or about how some Veterans have dealt with the situation when it enters their space but the one discussion we really haven't had yet is to look into why. Sure, free and discounted items is always high on the list but I mean why from a larger view.
Humans are very much a social animal. We hang out and seek adoption by liked minded people. Heck, that is why RallyPoint exists, to allow those of that served to have a place we were can get together and achieve some level of acceptance among peers. With this idea in mind, I started to look at the numerous cases that liter the internet. One common thing runs across all of these. Acceptance. People desire to be accepted have pushed them to embellish or straight out line about their military service. Acceptance has driven people to con others out of thousands of dollars. Acceptance has lead them to lie to everyone around them.
Is acceptance wrong to seek? Heck no. I'm writing this in order to see if my idea will be accepted or if I'm way off target. But like so many other things when dealing with humans and their thoughts, the true answer is covered in a dark film of other issues.
I think the one thing we can do as Veterans when it comes to those that lie about their record is to show them that it doesn't matter what you did in the service. If you were out on point everyday or you were helping to push bullets and water to the guys on the front, every position is valuable. Not everyone is going to walk out of combat with a chest full of awards. Not everyone will have the ability to complete the elite training that others receive. But the truth remains, we all, regardless of rank, branch, MOS, gender, creed and background, completed a job that most Americans are too scared to do. We did that job, did it well and are here to help remember those that aren't here anymore. We owe a debt to those that never made it home to be examples to others around us. We are this nation's thought leaders and one day very soon will find ourselves in positions to move mountains.
Humans are very much a social animal. We hang out and seek adoption by liked minded people. Heck, that is why RallyPoint exists, to allow those of that served to have a place we were can get together and achieve some level of acceptance among peers. With this idea in mind, I started to look at the numerous cases that liter the internet. One common thing runs across all of these. Acceptance. People desire to be accepted have pushed them to embellish or straight out line about their military service. Acceptance has driven people to con others out of thousands of dollars. Acceptance has lead them to lie to everyone around them.
Is acceptance wrong to seek? Heck no. I'm writing this in order to see if my idea will be accepted or if I'm way off target. But like so many other things when dealing with humans and their thoughts, the true answer is covered in a dark film of other issues.
I think the one thing we can do as Veterans when it comes to those that lie about their record is to show them that it doesn't matter what you did in the service. If you were out on point everyday or you were helping to push bullets and water to the guys on the front, every position is valuable. Not everyone is going to walk out of combat with a chest full of awards. Not everyone will have the ability to complete the elite training that others receive. But the truth remains, we all, regardless of rank, branch, MOS, gender, creed and background, completed a job that most Americans are too scared to do. We did that job, did it well and are here to help remember those that aren't here anymore. We owe a debt to those that never made it home to be examples to others around us. We are this nation's thought leaders and one day very soon will find ourselves in positions to move mountains.
Transition
Leadership
Stolen Valor
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 16
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Zero defect culture...
We have created an American culture that is based more on image than on substance. Therefore, integrity and character become secondary to appearance.
In the military, often times it is the awards and schools that sets a person apart when it comes time to be competitive for promotion.
Still, this is not a problem that owes itself to the nature of military culture, but is more the result of the culture that we draw our recruits and officers from. We spend more time and money in America in an attempt to rebrand ourselves than we do on actually developing the skills, abilities, and character that would set us apart.
The road less traveled is often harder, but the journey is worth the destination.
We have created an American culture that is based more on image than on substance. Therefore, integrity and character become secondary to appearance.
In the military, often times it is the awards and schools that sets a person apart when it comes time to be competitive for promotion.
Still, this is not a problem that owes itself to the nature of military culture, but is more the result of the culture that we draw our recruits and officers from. We spend more time and money in America in an attempt to rebrand ourselves than we do on actually developing the skills, abilities, and character that would set us apart.
The road less traveled is often harder, but the journey is worth the destination.
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SGT Ben Keen
I'm glad to see you respond CW2 Joseph Evans, you always have a great way to outline the idea in interesting ways. I would agree that the world runs more on image than on substance.
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CPT Pedro Meza
SGT Ben Keen - Yet, if you research it you will discovered that throughout military history falsifying has occur; we see more in our time thanks to improved communication systems.
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Here's the response I provided to:
Stolen Valor - The Insider Threat... How do we stop this? started by COL Charles Williams
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/stolen-valor-the-insider-threat-how-do-we-stop-this?page=2&urlhash=581205#581205
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Approaching this from a different angle.
"Have we made the bait too enticing?"
Have we made the value of these items so high that it is putting people into a position where they feel they must have them to compete?
Keep in mind I come from the USMC side, and we have very little flair, or even schools for that matter. The items we do have are generally so exclusive (SCUBA bubble, Jump Wings, Aviator Wings, etc) that not having them doesn't affect your promotion chances. Our awards system is much "slimmer" as well. The idea of having 10+ Commendation or Achievement awards is unheard of, and having a Bronze Star for anything other than Valor just doesn't seem to happen. I don't think we even use a points system for promotion at the boards (though I can't speak directly to it).
Having these items directly tied to a persons career and livelihood seems like a great way to create ethical dilemmas. When you add in the respect that comes with visual awards, whether tabs, CIB/CMB/CAB, etc.. I can definitely see a case for "setting people up for failure" in that "you must have X to be a good soldier."
This isn't designed to excuse the stolen valor behavior. Far from it. But... Look at the Tour D'France fiasco. They couldn't even award it after stripping Armstrong of his, because the problem had become so prevalent. The parallels are there.
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I don't know if this is the reason, but the more I look at it, the more my logic seems solid, at least "in part."
Stolen Valor - The Insider Threat... How do we stop this? started by COL Charles Williams
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/stolen-valor-the-insider-threat-how-do-we-stop-this?page=2&urlhash=581205#581205
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Approaching this from a different angle.
"Have we made the bait too enticing?"
Have we made the value of these items so high that it is putting people into a position where they feel they must have them to compete?
Keep in mind I come from the USMC side, and we have very little flair, or even schools for that matter. The items we do have are generally so exclusive (SCUBA bubble, Jump Wings, Aviator Wings, etc) that not having them doesn't affect your promotion chances. Our awards system is much "slimmer" as well. The idea of having 10+ Commendation or Achievement awards is unheard of, and having a Bronze Star for anything other than Valor just doesn't seem to happen. I don't think we even use a points system for promotion at the boards (though I can't speak directly to it).
Having these items directly tied to a persons career and livelihood seems like a great way to create ethical dilemmas. When you add in the respect that comes with visual awards, whether tabs, CIB/CMB/CAB, etc.. I can definitely see a case for "setting people up for failure" in that "you must have X to be a good soldier."
This isn't designed to excuse the stolen valor behavior. Far from it. But... Look at the Tour D'France fiasco. They couldn't even award it after stripping Armstrong of his, because the problem had become so prevalent. The parallels are there.
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I don't know if this is the reason, but the more I look at it, the more my logic seems solid, at least "in part."
Stolen Valor - The Insider Threat... How do we stop this? | RallyPoint
Stolen Valor is bad enough when it is person who is not actually affiliated with the military. And, I understand many of these folks have mental illnesses and perhaps they know not what they do. But, what do you think, how do you feel, or how do you react when an active duty service members wear awards and decorations they are not authorized? It seems it is always leaders... It seems to happen often. The LTC at Fort Benning... and now this......
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COL Charles Williams
Hooah, many I knew of in the Army did this solely for promotions etc... And some never wore them in public, just for board photos...
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
COL Charles Williams I would think that would be the easiest way to be caught...
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SGT Richard H.
COL Charles Williams I would submit, Sir, that personal gain and acceptance are very similar goals in this case.
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COL Charles Williams
Hooah. I was speaking for the purpose of promotion and selection board vs your Soldiers, units, peers.
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I think part of this could be acceptance, but part (with many) is about personal gain, as they wear these awards for board photos and records. It is wrong on both counts, so how do you fix it?
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
COL Charles Williams heck, I'm not even advocating a complete sterilization. A Combat Badge, SSI, Unit Patch, and a single tab should be enough. Substitute a set of wings/EIB/EMB for the Combat Badge as desired... just be able to walk through a metal detector is all.
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COL Charles Williams
I think sterile would be good. We spend a lot of time doing shoulder checks and chest glances.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
COL Charles Williams that concept is just so alien to me. The only thing I ever checked was collar, and even that was so I knew what to call them.
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