Posted on Jun 26, 2015
How do you ladies and gentlemen feel about all of the 1/1 NCOERs that are submitted every rating period?
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I saw an excellent post by a SFC Benavidez about 93 percent of NCOERS that get to HQDA are 1/1s. Does that mean that 93 percent are that good? Are we using the NCOER correctly? I personally have only rated 2 NCOs so far with no experience with rating anyone. I would like to hear people's thoughts and opinions about this, thanks!
NCOER
NCO Academy
NCOs
Posted 9 y ago
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My only fear with this type of thing...it cant be fixed at the individual level - it has to be system wide.
You cant have one guy such as SFC (Join to see) decide that too many people are getting 1/1s and start giving out lower scores - then, only YOUR people are getting low scores and they get passed over.
Kinda like when one commander decides to fix the awards program and shortchanges all of his/her people on awards because they feel that ex: Bronze Stars are given out way too easily.
I agree with you, SSG Pando, but i needs to come from the top down.
You cant have one guy such as SFC (Join to see) decide that too many people are getting 1/1s and start giving out lower scores - then, only YOUR people are getting low scores and they get passed over.
Kinda like when one commander decides to fix the awards program and shortchanges all of his/her people on awards because they feel that ex: Bronze Stars are given out way too easily.
I agree with you, SSG Pando, but i needs to come from the top down.
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Yes, this is a major problem. It hurts the real top performers the most, because there is no way to differentiate between the top NCOs (say the top 20%), and the mediocre NCOs (say the middle 60%), if they all get a 1/1.
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SFC (Join to see)
Is a 1/2 or a 2/1 that bad? Maybe a 2/2, for brand new, junior NCOs? I believe that is fair, unless they're bringing it to the table. But of course, it would be "bad" for the NCOs career, and would affect him later on, or so the story goes.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sir, the problem with mediocre in the military is that it is still really good. Being "average" and "really good" aren't mutually exclusive.
You're right that it hurts the top performers the most because they aren't being acknowledged correctly for being outlyers.
But how do you make a system that doesn't "punish" Average, when they are Good?
You're right that it hurts the top performers the most because they aren't being acknowledged correctly for being outlyers.
But how do you make a system that doesn't "punish" Average, when they are Good?
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LTC Yinon Weiss
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - It's actually pretty simple. The middle 50% of NCOs cannot all be promoted to E-9 Command, and the middle 50% of Officers can't be promoted to 4-Star Generals. That's not punishing anyone. So they may be "really good" -- their reward is to serve as NCOs in the US military entrusted with the lives of our nation's Soldiers and Marines. Being "pretty good" is simply expected. Being promoted is not a right. We can't promote everyone. So we either promote those who are most deserving, or we give 1/1 to almost everyone and promote randomly. The latter is just destructive.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
LTC Yinon Weiss Concur 100% but the way we are "building evaluation reports" is leading to the problem.
About 15 years ago the USMC faced the exact same issue. If you weren't all to one side, you were screwed. They changed the FitRep (Fitness Report), and made each of the sections more "Objective" in nature, and require bullets to justify anything outside the "Average" rating.
As an example, I received top marks on Education because I was attending College (and going to Base education doing CLEPS/DANTES), had completed my PME through SNCO, including all Intel, Ops, AND Admin, and was working through the Comm side.
On the bottom of the FitRep there was also the "Pyramid" which basically broken down the Top 1%, Top 10%, Many Qualified Marines, and "Sub Par Marines."
I've attached Example p2 (Google search) to show the Pyramid. There are 6-8 pages iirc.
I am in no way advocating promoting everyone, I am merely saying the "tool" we are using may be flawed.
About 15 years ago the USMC faced the exact same issue. If you weren't all to one side, you were screwed. They changed the FitRep (Fitness Report), and made each of the sections more "Objective" in nature, and require bullets to justify anything outside the "Average" rating.
As an example, I received top marks on Education because I was attending College (and going to Base education doing CLEPS/DANTES), had completed my PME through SNCO, including all Intel, Ops, AND Admin, and was working through the Comm side.
On the bottom of the FitRep there was also the "Pyramid" which basically broken down the Top 1%, Top 10%, Many Qualified Marines, and "Sub Par Marines."
I've attached Example p2 (Google search) to show the Pyramid. There are 6-8 pages iirc.
I am in no way advocating promoting everyone, I am merely saying the "tool" we are using may be flawed.
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The officers have a better situation as senior raters can't give everyone a top block.
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