Posted on Jun 26, 2015
"Prison escape: Why NY won't use military drones in search for killers"
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From: Syracuse.com
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WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Three weeks after one of the most infamous prison escapes in New York history, Gov. Andrew Cuomo has declined to request help from the 174th Attack Wing and its military surveillance drones in tracking two escaped killers, military officials say.
The MQ-9 Reaper drones in Syracuse – some of the most sophisticated surveillance aircraft in the military's arsenal – continue to operate training missions over the Adirondacks and Northern New York where they can loiter for at least 27 hours without refueling.
But the state decided against expanding the mission to search for Richard Matt, 49, and David Sweat, 35, the two convicted murderers who escaped from Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora, N.Y on June 6.
Maj. Sandy Stoquert, a spokeswoman for the 174th Attack Wing, said state and Air National Guard officials had early discussions about using the remotely-piloted aircraft to search for the escapees. She did not know why those talks never advanced.
New York State Police declined to comment Thursday about those discussions, or to say if troopers are using any kind of aerial surveillance as part of the search.
"I cannot provide specifics about the equipment, technology, tactics and operations being employed while the search is ongoing," said Beau Duffy, a state police spokesman in Albany. "We have to assume that the escapees may have access to information being reported by the media. We do not want to provide details they could use to avoid capture."
Almost two years ago, the commander of the 174th Attack Wing touted the growing capabilities of his Syracuse-based military drones to aid New York in emergencies. Col. Greg Semmel said the Air National Guard unit stood ready to help the state, at the governor's request, in responding to natural disasters or search and rescue operations.
"There are so many opportunities to use this bird to help the citizens of New York," Semmel told reporters in 2013.
In order to use the Reaper drones, Cuomo would have to make a formal request for help to the New York State Division of Military and Naval Affairs. Eric Durr, a spokesman for the Latham-based office, said state officials had several reasons for deciding against using the drones:
State police helicopters can perform some of the same surveillance functions.
"The only advantage the MQ-9 would have over a state police helicopter is the loiter time," Durr said. "And the determination was made that it was not a necessary asset." Durr said he did not know if the helicopters are equipped with the same sophisticated military cameras and sensors as the MQ-9 Reaper.
The 174th Attack Wing would have to request permission from the Federal Aviation Administration to fly outside of the restricted military airspace for the Reaper drones.
The FAA gave the wing permission in 2013 to expand routine training missions from parts of the Adirondacks and Lake Ontario to Onondaga, Oswego and Madison County. Flights must operate at 18,000 feet. But Durr said the New York Air National Guard has never requested FAA permission for one-time waivers for search and rescue operations.
By requesting use of the 174th Attack Wing's Reapers, it would take aircraft away from their assigned federal training mission, Durr said. He said the state would likely to have reimburse the federal government for the costs of operating the planes.
Semmel, the 174th Attack Wing commander, did not talk about such potential obstacles when he stood in front of a Reaper drone at Hancock Field in 2013 and discussed the increased ability to fly over New York.
In addition to their training, the pilots based at Hancock Field in DeWitt remotely operate the MQ-9 aircraft over Afghanistan, gathering intelligence on the movements of Taliban insurgents. The planes are equipped with sophisticated cameras and sensors, and use forward-looking infrared cameras that can tell the difference between an animal and a human.
In an online Q&A with syracuse.com readers last year, Semmel noted that some military MQ-9 Reapers were being used in California to help battle wildfires.
"The capabilities of the (remotely piloted aircraft) are endless when it comes to supporting our community as demonstrated by the wildfires in California last summer, where the fire chief for operations was quoted as saying the RPA support accelerated his ability to contain the fires by four days," Semmel wrote.
He added, "We have exercised locally with the Coast Guard to demonstrate the search and rescue capabilities of the aircraft."
http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/06/prison_escape_why_ny_wont_use_military_drones_in_search_for_killers.html
--
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Three weeks after one of the most infamous prison escapes in New York history, Gov. Andrew Cuomo has declined to request help from the 174th Attack Wing and its military surveillance drones in tracking two escaped killers, military officials say.
The MQ-9 Reaper drones in Syracuse – some of the most sophisticated surveillance aircraft in the military's arsenal – continue to operate training missions over the Adirondacks and Northern New York where they can loiter for at least 27 hours without refueling.
But the state decided against expanding the mission to search for Richard Matt, 49, and David Sweat, 35, the two convicted murderers who escaped from Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora, N.Y on June 6.
Maj. Sandy Stoquert, a spokeswoman for the 174th Attack Wing, said state and Air National Guard officials had early discussions about using the remotely-piloted aircraft to search for the escapees. She did not know why those talks never advanced.
New York State Police declined to comment Thursday about those discussions, or to say if troopers are using any kind of aerial surveillance as part of the search.
"I cannot provide specifics about the equipment, technology, tactics and operations being employed while the search is ongoing," said Beau Duffy, a state police spokesman in Albany. "We have to assume that the escapees may have access to information being reported by the media. We do not want to provide details they could use to avoid capture."
Almost two years ago, the commander of the 174th Attack Wing touted the growing capabilities of his Syracuse-based military drones to aid New York in emergencies. Col. Greg Semmel said the Air National Guard unit stood ready to help the state, at the governor's request, in responding to natural disasters or search and rescue operations.
"There are so many opportunities to use this bird to help the citizens of New York," Semmel told reporters in 2013.
In order to use the Reaper drones, Cuomo would have to make a formal request for help to the New York State Division of Military and Naval Affairs. Eric Durr, a spokesman for the Latham-based office, said state officials had several reasons for deciding against using the drones:
State police helicopters can perform some of the same surveillance functions.
"The only advantage the MQ-9 would have over a state police helicopter is the loiter time," Durr said. "And the determination was made that it was not a necessary asset." Durr said he did not know if the helicopters are equipped with the same sophisticated military cameras and sensors as the MQ-9 Reaper.
The 174th Attack Wing would have to request permission from the Federal Aviation Administration to fly outside of the restricted military airspace for the Reaper drones.
The FAA gave the wing permission in 2013 to expand routine training missions from parts of the Adirondacks and Lake Ontario to Onondaga, Oswego and Madison County. Flights must operate at 18,000 feet. But Durr said the New York Air National Guard has never requested FAA permission for one-time waivers for search and rescue operations.
By requesting use of the 174th Attack Wing's Reapers, it would take aircraft away from their assigned federal training mission, Durr said. He said the state would likely to have reimburse the federal government for the costs of operating the planes.
Semmel, the 174th Attack Wing commander, did not talk about such potential obstacles when he stood in front of a Reaper drone at Hancock Field in 2013 and discussed the increased ability to fly over New York.
In addition to their training, the pilots based at Hancock Field in DeWitt remotely operate the MQ-9 aircraft over Afghanistan, gathering intelligence on the movements of Taliban insurgents. The planes are equipped with sophisticated cameras and sensors, and use forward-looking infrared cameras that can tell the difference between an animal and a human.
In an online Q&A with syracuse.com readers last year, Semmel noted that some military MQ-9 Reapers were being used in California to help battle wildfires.
"The capabilities of the (remotely piloted aircraft) are endless when it comes to supporting our community as demonstrated by the wildfires in California last summer, where the fire chief for operations was quoted as saying the RPA support accelerated his ability to contain the fires by four days," Semmel wrote.
He added, "We have exercised locally with the Coast Guard to demonstrate the search and rescue capabilities of the aircraft."
http://www.syracuse.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/06/prison_escape_why_ny_wont_use_military_drones_in_search_for_killers.html
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Posted 9 y ago
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SSgt (Join to see) Capt Mark Strobl The 174th AW is a New York Air National Guard Unit. From Wikipedia:
The 174th Attack Wing (174 ATKW) is a unit of the New York Air National Guard, stationed at Hancock Field Air National Guard Base, Syracuse, New York. If activated to federal service, the Wing is gained by the United States Air Force Air Combat Command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/174th_Attack_Wing
Funding, therefore would be intra-agency.
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS The Posse Comitatus Act does not apply to National Guard units, with the exception of any National Guard units that have been federalized. Also from Wikipedia:
The Act only specifically applies to the Army and, as amended in 1956, the Air Force. While the Act does not explicitly mention the naval services, specifically the Navy and the Marine Corps, the Department of the Navy has prescribed regulations that are generally construed to give the Act force with respect to those services as well. The Act does not apply to the National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor. The United States Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act either, primarily because although the Coast Guard is an armed service, it also has both a maritime law enforcement mission and a federal regulatory agency mission.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
Frankly, I think SSG Ed Mikus has it right, as far as Gov. Cuomo is concerned. Gov. Cuomo likely views all New York Guard units as something distasteful and he'd rather not acknowledge their existence. Throw in the usual turf war and worry about what agency gets the credit for a successful capture, and, well, it appears some would rather allow the cons to run loose rather than accept help from another state agency that could be of some very real assistance.
SSgt (Join to see)
Your comment: "The military shouldn't be used to hunt Americans on our soil, this isn't a matter for the military at all."
32 U.S. Code § 907 - Relationship to State duty (Referencing National Guard)
"Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as a limitation on the authority of any unit of the National Guard of a State, when such unit is not in Federal service, to perform functions authorized to be performed by the National Guard by the laws of the State concerned."
From Wikipedia:
"When Air National Guard units are used under the jurisdiction of the State Governor they are fulfilling their militia role."
From New York National Guard 101:
"The National Guard can be called into State Active Duty to assist in state homeland defense or respond to emergencies. The National Guard can also assist in responses to national priorities, such as Providing additional border security, while still in its nonfederal status."
Personally, I would consider the escape of two convicted murderers to be an emergency, especially in light of the length of time that has passed since the escape.
https://dmna.ny.gov/contact/NY_National_Guard_101.pdf
The 174th Attack Wing (174 ATKW) is a unit of the New York Air National Guard, stationed at Hancock Field Air National Guard Base, Syracuse, New York. If activated to federal service, the Wing is gained by the United States Air Force Air Combat Command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/174th_Attack_Wing
Funding, therefore would be intra-agency.
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS The Posse Comitatus Act does not apply to National Guard units, with the exception of any National Guard units that have been federalized. Also from Wikipedia:
The Act only specifically applies to the Army and, as amended in 1956, the Air Force. While the Act does not explicitly mention the naval services, specifically the Navy and the Marine Corps, the Department of the Navy has prescribed regulations that are generally construed to give the Act force with respect to those services as well. The Act does not apply to the National Guard under state authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within its home state or in an adjacent state if invited by that state's governor. The United States Coast Guard, which operates under the Department of Homeland Security, is not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act either, primarily because although the Coast Guard is an armed service, it also has both a maritime law enforcement mission and a federal regulatory agency mission.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
Frankly, I think SSG Ed Mikus has it right, as far as Gov. Cuomo is concerned. Gov. Cuomo likely views all New York Guard units as something distasteful and he'd rather not acknowledge their existence. Throw in the usual turf war and worry about what agency gets the credit for a successful capture, and, well, it appears some would rather allow the cons to run loose rather than accept help from another state agency that could be of some very real assistance.
SSgt (Join to see)
Your comment: "The military shouldn't be used to hunt Americans on our soil, this isn't a matter for the military at all."
32 U.S. Code § 907 - Relationship to State duty (Referencing National Guard)
"Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as a limitation on the authority of any unit of the National Guard of a State, when such unit is not in Federal service, to perform functions authorized to be performed by the National Guard by the laws of the State concerned."
From Wikipedia:
"When Air National Guard units are used under the jurisdiction of the State Governor they are fulfilling their militia role."
From New York National Guard 101:
"The National Guard can be called into State Active Duty to assist in state homeland defense or respond to emergencies. The National Guard can also assist in responses to national priorities, such as Providing additional border security, while still in its nonfederal status."
Personally, I would consider the escape of two convicted murderers to be an emergency, especially in light of the length of time that has passed since the escape.
https://dmna.ny.gov/contact/NY_National_Guard_101.pdf
174th Attack Wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 174th Attack Wing (174 ATKW) is a unit of the New York Air National Guard, stationed at Hancock Field Air National Guard Base, Syracuse, New York. If activated to federal service, the Wing is gained by the United States Air Force Air Combat Command.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
I didn't realize it was an Air National Guard unit. Thought it was straight USAF.
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Capt Mark Strobl
OK. Good scoop for the discussion. My only rebuttal:
1.) I'll assume the Honorable Mr. Cuomo couldn't find it in the budget to fly a couple of Reapers; and
2.) It's a military asset --Generally a bad idea to use in a civilian capacity. The Air Force, ANG, and AFR don't deploy these things against U.S. Civilians.
Intra-Agency among what factors? Unless the 174th Attack Wing can get paid in advance for their personnel, fuel, & facilities, those birds aren't moving out of the hangar.
1.) I'll assume the Honorable Mr. Cuomo couldn't find it in the budget to fly a couple of Reapers; and
2.) It's a military asset --Generally a bad idea to use in a civilian capacity. The Air Force, ANG, and AFR don't deploy these things against U.S. Civilians.
Intra-Agency among what factors? Unless the 174th Attack Wing can get paid in advance for their personnel, fuel, & facilities, those birds aren't moving out of the hangar.
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Capt Mark Strobl
Well... Now, they only have to find one. Matt's been "taken care of."
http://www.cbsnews.com/live/?ftag=CNMe94798
http://www.cbsnews.com/live/?ftag=CNMe94798
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