Posted on Jul 15, 2015
SGM Steve Wettstein
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After following a topic on if the Army should change the promotion criteria for being promoted to SGT and SSG. I read a lot of posts that think the purpose of the board is to see how much information someone can remember. It is more than that. I would like to hear what you RP members think it is.
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Responses: 82
CSM Brigade Operations (S3) Sergeant Major
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Well brother, when I was a CSM I approached the board a little different. The Soldier/NCO is obviously proficient in his/her MOS or they wouldn't have been recommended for promotion. So, the question is do they have the qualities to be a leader? All the normal questions are asked and answered, the Creed is said and the songs are sung but, at the end I asked questions about the questions.

EXAMPLE: The question was asked, what is METL? The Soldier/NCO answers Mission Essential Task List. So, at the end I say I don't think the 1SG asked you what the acronym METL stood for, I think he asked you what METL is, so what's METL?

Another question is asked: What is ACS? The Soldier/NCO answers Army Community Service. At the end I ask the Soldier/NCO where is ACS located on post? Have you ever been there?

Those are just a couple examples. I usually took more time than the 1SGs. I know a lot of units just use the board because "they have to". I used it to ensure my future NCOs really knew what they needed to know to be a leader because I already knew they were proficient in their MOS.
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SSG John Gillespie
SSG John Gillespie
9 y
I've got to say, SGM, your approach is a hell of a lot more appropriate and befitting of an NCO than the basic check the block action which most boards I saw consisted of. Thank you for doing your part to ensure our Corps' future is a little brighter.
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1stSgt Sergeant Major/First Sergeant
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SFC Wardmaster
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
SGM Oldsen, you are a leader I would like to follow! I wish part of the board would include an evaluation from subordinate Soldiers and also evaluation from other leaders that have experience with that NCO. All before securing a place on the board
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SSG Louis Novak
SSG Louis Novak
>1 y
SGM, what about a board that questions the NCO's squad/team? If you really want to know what he/she knows and their leadership abilities are you can definitely find out by asking the soldiers (they are, after all, a reflection of their leaders).
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SFC Closed Access Network Operator
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SGM, the purpose of the SGT abd SSG boards are to convey to the board members your confidence and ability to perform under pressure. If a leader does not have an outward appearance of confidence, then their Soldiers will not have confidence in their leader. There's not a single soldier that can be an expert in everything, and just because an individual can spit out regulations doesn't, in any way, mean they truly understand them. Leaders need to constantly research rules and regulations because they are ever changing.
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SSG John Gillespie
SSG John Gillespie
9 y
My apologies for the apparent typing errors in my comment. My advice? Limit detailed responses when reviewing posts from a phone. >.>
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SSG Marciano Gonzalez
SSG Marciano Gonzalez
9 y
Regs are only a guide common sense out do any writing. as future leaders think first and then act. because if you are wrong the consequences can be devastated.Allways use your knowledge and and when in doubt ask first and act later.
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SFC Armor Crew Member
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
GREAT post battle....That is what I just got done ranting about myself
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SPC Signal Support Systems Specialist
SPC (Join to see)
6 y
The process also gives the senior enlisted leadership face time and a final unit review. Centralized promotions would depend on your chain and how you look on paper; the semi-centralized boards let the highest enlisted in the unit police their own and match the soldier’s reputation with their presence to see if they belong among the army’s NCO corps and more specifically within the units leadership.
For most E-4’s it’s an unnecessary step as they’ve not really developed any leadership scars and by the time they are recommended for promo board, they at least know how to fake military bearing. The process gives a release valve for otherwise objectively qualified soldiers and junior NCO’s to be subjectively reviewed.
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SGT Erin Wofford
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Whatever the original purpose of these boards was, it has been lost. I have seen alot of responses claiming that if a soldier is recommended for the board, they can already be assumed to be proficient in their MOS. This premise is completely false. There is a ton of pressure to get eligible soldiers to the board no matter whether they are ready or even if they want be there. I did not have any interest in promotion. I was taking college classes and applying to Medical school and my priorities were elsewhere. My leadership was well aware that I was planning to ETS, and they forced me to go to the board just because of my time in service/time in grade. There were five in my board cohort, two of whom I had personally worked with who were NOT proficient at our MOS. We were all five promoted. When you ask soldiers outside the board why they want a promotion, most of them will say for the money, but in the board they will regurgitate whatever BS information they are told to memorize in order to make the best impression on a group of people who don't know crap about them. I am on transition leave right now, so I don't really know why I have bothered answering, but I think an honest question deserves an honest answer, and it is my honest opinion that the board serves no purpose... the promotion system is broken and rewards butt-kissers and people who are willing to lie to get what they want.
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SGM Steve Wettstein
SGM Steve Wettstein
9 y
SGT Erin Wofford I have to agree that there are plenty of Soldiers that appear in front of the promotion board that have no business being there. IMO it is because some NCOs are to lazy or do not know that you can counsel them as to why they are not appearing.
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SGT Mark Rhodes
SGT Mark Rhodes
9 y
This SGT to SSG board was not in existence when I was in to make SSG you had to have enough points to be promoted yes I went in front of a promotion board but the board was more of a formality to be promotable. I took this and all boards serious because I wanted to be the best and that goes for every thing I do I put a lit of time and effort to be the best and while others in a highly promoted job may get promoted before me did not make him a better NCO than me. SGM this is an excellent question and I hope you get the answer you are looking for.
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SSG John Gillespie
SSG John Gillespie
9 y
Thank you for your candor. I regret your experience in this regard, but I've seen it all too often myself. In my own MOS, the month after I was finally promoted to SGT (2 months after I initially made the list, due to some orderly room shenanigans), HRC did something unprecedented and dropped the points requirements to bare minimum for SGT. They promoted everyone on the list in what had been a fairly competitive, highly technical MOS. Three of those individuals were in my unit at the time and attended the board in the secondary zone (barely) at the same time I did so in the primary zone because their section chief liked them personally. They each had some measure of technical competence but none of them had any form of professional maturity or competence for leadership. They were your typical smart dumbasses where it came to motivating others and keeping them task oriented. They were simply too immature for the responsibility and it showed after they were promoted. One of them led his entire shift on to the overweight program; especially damning considering they were all in shape before he came along. For myself, I have had several soldiers under my care through the years who were technically brilliant, had the maturity to become great NCOs, and who simply had no drive to lead others. Not once did I put a soldier in front of a board who did not have technical competence in their MOS, the maturity necessary to lead and care for others, and the drive necessary to become a good NCO. Yes, I took my responsibility seriously.
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SFC Armor Crew Member
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
I had a SPC when I was PSG out in HI, that I wanted him to go to the board SO bad. This kid was one of my "go to guys." I am a Tanker and I know NOTHING when it comes to Mortars, so being as they were in my Platoon, I needed people in that section that I would could on to make SURE that the junior guys were being trained and cared for. He was actually "forced" to go the month before I took over as PSG. It was a disaster. It further absolutely DESTROYED ANY and I repeat ANY chances of me getting him to go again. I would ask EVERY month right before I gave him his monthly Non-Promotion Counseling. "Are you SURE you will not go to the board?" Negative Sergeant". I would ask WHY, you are already the guy I send out to make sure that the guys are accomplishing the mission. Why not WEAR the rank I am making you DO? "I do not like confrontation." I simply stared at him...read him his non-promotion counseling statement. The next month I would remind him, that there might be some, but if so, he would have to remember that HE was the NCO and if it did not work, then let ME know and I would handle it. "Negative Sergeant." *Sigh* Sign this counseling statement. It was a TRUE loss to the Army investment.
In regards to Sergeant Majors comment. When the white book comes down, and these PSGs are saying NO, and then the counselings are not being done it is SO damaging honestly. We had a guy that actually was automatically integrated, actually TWO that I would not have babysit a PLANT much less care for my Soldiers. Fortunately they were in another company, otherwise I would have sent them to reduction boards personally. However the failure was not on THEIR part, it was on the PSG, the SL and the TL because they were TOO LAZY to take FIVE MINUTES to TYPE a COUNSELING, 3 MINUTES to GIVE and 1 MINUTE to send it to the TRAINING ROOM with the 1SG and S1 cc'd. It is a simple job and a complex job being in charge. Being responsible for lives. Someone just has to DO IT.
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