Posted on May 29, 2023
Any advice for a career SPC with nothing to feel proud of?
Suspended Profile
1.27K
65
30
I've served in the national guard for almost 10 years. I joined after college in attempt to be an officer, but I dropped out of OCS. I continued my service after being forced into my current MOS, which was quite small and has almost no opportunity for advancement. I'll be 33 when I ETS, and I've never been promoted as I came in as an E4. My unit never really supported me in anything. I was activated for about a year to work on the US/Mexican border, but it wasn't anything special. I don't feel proud of my service even though I am considered a "protected veteran" based on the campaign badge I received. I feel like a failure, especially compared to many service members who have E5 and higher at much younger ages than myself, or veterans who are my age who were E6 when they got out. I feel ashamed to mention my service to anyone, as they judge how little I did, how little I achieved. I don't even mention it on my resume because of how ashamed I feel about it. I joined the military to gain experience, to gain confidence, to achieve something, to make my life feel worthy. And the only thing the Army ever made me feel was inadequate for never achieving the same as my peers.
Posted in these groups: 
Transition
Transition
Posted 11 mo ago
Responses: 10
Friend, here's my short response: own it.
Sure, there is an argument to be made that you weren't as high speed, low-drag as others, or as high speed as you personally could have been, but so what? You were medium-speed, some-drag. That still counts as service. You served. You did 10 years. No one can take that from you. Don't let them.
Along the same lines, you know what I say to the grunts who question my combat deployment because it was a typical, easy, POG tour? "Sorry your deployment sucked. Mine was great."
Long answer: I'm sending you a PM. I'd like to share with you some advice and maybe even a few resources, if that's alright. I think this question is very important for you and I have some wisdom to offer. I have been shown, by many mentors over many years, how the stereotypical vision of success in our military is often hollow and immature. There's a robust discussion to be had about what achievement really means for us Soldiers. Hint: rank has little to do with it!
Sure, there is an argument to be made that you weren't as high speed, low-drag as others, or as high speed as you personally could have been, but so what? You were medium-speed, some-drag. That still counts as service. You served. You did 10 years. No one can take that from you. Don't let them.
Along the same lines, you know what I say to the grunts who question my combat deployment because it was a typical, easy, POG tour? "Sorry your deployment sucked. Mine was great."
Long answer: I'm sending you a PM. I'd like to share with you some advice and maybe even a few resources, if that's alright. I think this question is very important for you and I have some wisdom to offer. I have been shown, by many mentors over many years, how the stereotypical vision of success in our military is often hollow and immature. There's a robust discussion to be had about what achievement really means for us Soldiers. Hint: rank has little to do with it!
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
~~~~ BINGO ~~~~~
CPT Aaron Kletzing
Good advice here
First, you serve so you are one up on 99.96% of Americans who don't serve today, and 93% of all Americans who never served at all. You did, and still do.
You're in a tough MOS for Guard. I am in a large state and we only have 9 total jobs for 15E:
5 x E4
2 X E5
1 x E6
1 X E7
That's not a formula for career advancement, it's a formula to stagnate.
It's just not smart to stay in an MOS like that, unless you love the MOS and don't care about career advancement (still not smart, but folks like what they like).
My state has over 380 E4s with 5 to 21 years in grade today, and in every MOS that is easy to promote in, it happens.
The guy that came in and made E5 ahead of you did not screw you out of promotion, he just had more points.
If you were to reclass and promote, you wouldn't be screwing someone out of promotion, you just have more points.
So, assuming you already have DLC1 complete, and maybe BLC, get your DL classes, IWQ and PT points maxed out, and reclass to an MOS that you state has hundreds of. And as soon as you promote, get DLC2 and ALC done immediately so that you are fully eligible again as soon as you hit time in grade.
Or go back to OCS.
You're in a tough MOS for Guard. I am in a large state and we only have 9 total jobs for 15E:
5 x E4
2 X E5
1 x E6
1 X E7
That's not a formula for career advancement, it's a formula to stagnate.
It's just not smart to stay in an MOS like that, unless you love the MOS and don't care about career advancement (still not smart, but folks like what they like).
My state has over 380 E4s with 5 to 21 years in grade today, and in every MOS that is easy to promote in, it happens.
The guy that came in and made E5 ahead of you did not screw you out of promotion, he just had more points.
If you were to reclass and promote, you wouldn't be screwing someone out of promotion, you just have more points.
So, assuming you already have DLC1 complete, and maybe BLC, get your DL classes, IWQ and PT points maxed out, and reclass to an MOS that you state has hundreds of. And as soon as you promote, get DLC2 and ALC done immediately so that you are fully eligible again as soon as you hit time in grade.
Or go back to OCS.
Suspended Profile
I've seen multiple people in my MOS reclass and never get promoted. They wait on school slots, and then they lose their pomotable status, and have to wait another year after finishing school to go through a board and eventually put back on the promotion list. The board convenes once per year, so if you become MOS qualified at the wrong time, you can be waiting a long time to promote. A friend of mine waited two years just for a school slot. It took them 3 years from 'reclassing' to actually become MOS qualified, and it would have taken then 4 years total to actually be deemed promotable within that MOS. They only signed a 3 year contract and got out. So I could be 36+ by the time I make E5 while all of my NCO peers would be significantly younger than me. In some units, I'd be older than the E7s. And that's assuming I can keep my PT numbers up as I age. There's no point. Others are right. I've failed as an enlisted service member. I should have never joined.
1LT (Join to see)
SPC J Donavan I want to challenge you to think about what you're saying here, the words you are choosing. "Failed as an enlisted service member," is that really the case? Okay you failed to get promoted. Yeah, that sucks. But SGM (Join to see) already outlined how context explains a big part of that "failure." But more importantly, that was never your job, was it now? Promotion was never the mission. So, what did you really fail at? Expectations of others? Expectations of yourself? Cultural measurements or success? If it's any of those things, or something like them, then you have a much better starting point to chew through your feelings of disappointment.
The Army is not objectively classifying you as a failure because you didn't get promoted. And anyone who does is arguably an inexperienced leader who may not have their priorities straight. You know how many Soldiers I have had to kick out of the Army, in the past 3 years alone. I stopped counting after 13. They were failures. They did not meet Army standards. You did, for 10 years.
The Army is not objectively classifying you as a failure because you didn't get promoted. And anyone who does is arguably an inexperienced leader who may not have their priorities straight. You know how many Soldiers I have had to kick out of the Army, in the past 3 years alone. I stopped counting after 13. They were failures. They did not meet Army standards. You did, for 10 years.
SGM (Join to see)
SPC J Donavan - In the Guard, Soldiers who "fail to get promoted" are either in an over-strength MOS or aren't trying very hard.
Soldiers who "wait years for a school slot" are either trying to reclass to a low-density MOS or aren't trying very hard.
And before you use age as an excuse to pack it in, consider this:
After spending most of his adult life working as a lifeguard, Aaron Bank was already 39 years old when he enlisted as a PVT in the Army in 1942. He graduated OCS at age 40 and branched Infantry but was assigned to a stateside Transportation BN due to his age. Despite that, he volunteered for OSS, commanded a Jedburgh team in the European and Pacific theaters. In 1952 he was the DCO for the 187th Airborne RCT in Korea He served on the Army Staff, wrote the doctrine and founded the modern Army Special Forces, commanding 10th SFG(A) in Germany before retiring in 1958.
If you want to do it, you'll do it, and you won't let age or an incompetent AGR get in your way.
Soldiers who "wait years for a school slot" are either trying to reclass to a low-density MOS or aren't trying very hard.
And before you use age as an excuse to pack it in, consider this:
After spending most of his adult life working as a lifeguard, Aaron Bank was already 39 years old when he enlisted as a PVT in the Army in 1942. He graduated OCS at age 40 and branched Infantry but was assigned to a stateside Transportation BN due to his age. Despite that, he volunteered for OSS, commanded a Jedburgh team in the European and Pacific theaters. In 1952 he was the DCO for the 187th Airborne RCT in Korea He served on the Army Staff, wrote the doctrine and founded the modern Army Special Forces, commanding 10th SFG(A) in Germany before retiring in 1958.
If you want to do it, you'll do it, and you won't let age or an incompetent AGR get in your way.
OK................ here I go.
You are in a position to make FULL BIRD COL and could have 15 years TIS before I enlisted myself and started from zero.
I suggest taking the ETS and jumping to the USAR ASAP. A peer of mine just made CPT after 9 years as 1LT, but he came from the NG, so I get it.
The Army is a very low bar in life. The pathways from E1-E7 and W1-W4 and O1-O5 are basically very straight forward. I'm not saying it's "easy", but it is right there for us to reach out and grab.
Having a degree is literally the most complicated part of the process, and it checks the biggest hurdle for most folks. Now, there are physical and mental challenges of various pathways that are harder in the army, but none of them burn up 4 years of focus, time, and financial resources.
************
Story time:
When I was in AIT there was a SPC reclass in my class. He changed MOS's to stay in and reenlist. Later, I crossed paths with him again when I was kin Korea for my Annual Training. He was still a SPC, and I was a 2LT.
So between that time where he and I separated from AIT graduation I was an Intel SPC, was turned down for my first direct commission packet, then promoted to SGT (now 2+ years TIS), then applied for direct commission again, was shortly deployed thereafter for 9 months, selected for direct commission at the end of my deployment, took 6 months for the commission to finalize, transferred to the Quartermaster Branch, and then sent to Korea for my first Annual Training as a new 2LT, and stumbled upon the guy as we changed shifts during the exercise.
SPC in my eyes is the rank everyone can camp out at and just coast if they want. I've never felt poorly about SPC's, being a PFC or lower when one ETS's raises my eyebrow. If all you want is the job, then that's fine.
So if you want to camp out at SPC then that's fine. Perform to the pay check. That's how I delt with arrogant NCO's that loved outranking me with all my education and age.
SPC is kind of a protected rank depending on how you look at it. Once one is an NCO things get tracked and iPerm'd in NCOERs. E1-E4 is a rank one can literally go up and down in and then decide to get one's act together and your history doesn't really follow you.
SPC is really an under appreciated rank :-)
The flag that's flown on veterans day is the same flag flown for the E4 that scrambles eggs in the DFAC as it is the Navy Seal that put a bullet in Bin Ladin's head.
For the outsiders simply wearing the uniform is what many day dream of. Of course little do they know of the nonsense that comes with it.
***********
But I'm really holding back what I want to lay into.
You have a degree.
You've been activated.
You've been in 10 years.
Come on man, fill out the forms, packets, etc..., stay green medically and physically. SFC and LTC pathways are right there in front of you.
************
The turn over in the Army is so high don't expect the system to do anything for you once you are out of TRADOC. That is all the system wants (qualified minions to do tasks and keep the machine moving forward). It doesn't care if you never advance beyond that. It lays out the bread crumbs, but you still have to pick them up.
You are in a position to make FULL BIRD COL and could have 15 years TIS before I enlisted myself and started from zero.
I suggest taking the ETS and jumping to the USAR ASAP. A peer of mine just made CPT after 9 years as 1LT, but he came from the NG, so I get it.
The Army is a very low bar in life. The pathways from E1-E7 and W1-W4 and O1-O5 are basically very straight forward. I'm not saying it's "easy", but it is right there for us to reach out and grab.
Having a degree is literally the most complicated part of the process, and it checks the biggest hurdle for most folks. Now, there are physical and mental challenges of various pathways that are harder in the army, but none of them burn up 4 years of focus, time, and financial resources.
************
Story time:
When I was in AIT there was a SPC reclass in my class. He changed MOS's to stay in and reenlist. Later, I crossed paths with him again when I was kin Korea for my Annual Training. He was still a SPC, and I was a 2LT.
So between that time where he and I separated from AIT graduation I was an Intel SPC, was turned down for my first direct commission packet, then promoted to SGT (now 2+ years TIS), then applied for direct commission again, was shortly deployed thereafter for 9 months, selected for direct commission at the end of my deployment, took 6 months for the commission to finalize, transferred to the Quartermaster Branch, and then sent to Korea for my first Annual Training as a new 2LT, and stumbled upon the guy as we changed shifts during the exercise.
SPC in my eyes is the rank everyone can camp out at and just coast if they want. I've never felt poorly about SPC's, being a PFC or lower when one ETS's raises my eyebrow. If all you want is the job, then that's fine.
So if you want to camp out at SPC then that's fine. Perform to the pay check. That's how I delt with arrogant NCO's that loved outranking me with all my education and age.
SPC is kind of a protected rank depending on how you look at it. Once one is an NCO things get tracked and iPerm'd in NCOERs. E1-E4 is a rank one can literally go up and down in and then decide to get one's act together and your history doesn't really follow you.
SPC is really an under appreciated rank :-)
The flag that's flown on veterans day is the same flag flown for the E4 that scrambles eggs in the DFAC as it is the Navy Seal that put a bullet in Bin Ladin's head.
For the outsiders simply wearing the uniform is what many day dream of. Of course little do they know of the nonsense that comes with it.
***********
But I'm really holding back what I want to lay into.
You have a degree.
You've been activated.
You've been in 10 years.
Come on man, fill out the forms, packets, etc..., stay green medically and physically. SFC and LTC pathways are right there in front of you.
************
The turn over in the Army is so high don't expect the system to do anything for you once you are out of TRADOC. That is all the system wants (qualified minions to do tasks and keep the machine moving forward). It doesn't care if you never advance beyond that. It lays out the bread crumbs, but you still have to pick them up.
CPT (Join to see)
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney - exactly............ the military is the great equalizer. Degree required. Harvard degree is on par with On-Line Phoenix University. Now, one might not become a flag officer with an on-line degree only, but it will get one pretty far along the ranks.
Suspended Profile
I don't believe I am fit to succeed. I dropped out of OCS because I wasn't fit to be a soldier. The state was desperate for bodies, so they allowed me to continue my enlistment contract. I had goals of making E5 so that I could fit in with friends and family who were E5 or above when they got out. But in reality, I was never fit to be an NCO. I was a good soldier, I got excellent remarks on evals because I put my head down and worked hard. I did what others didn't want to do, and I did it faster. But I was never a leader, nor would I make a good leader.
But that doesn't make me feel proud. I have nothing going for me intellectually or physically. I only have a degree because my mother forced me to get it, and most colleges are just degree mills, it isn't hard to get if you just show up with a pulse and a pencil. Military was the only thing I felt could give me something to feel good about. In the real world, I can't get promoted due to intelligence, but maybe in the Army if I just worked hard I could get promoted. I of course was wrong about that. Now having spent a lot of time in uniform, I know that I wouldn't make a good leader. Even if I had to chance to make E5 today, I would pass, because someone like me shouldn't be in that position. I am a career E4, and that's all I'm really good enough for. It hurts to come to that realization, to realize you're nothing special. Ever since I was a kid I wanted to be in the military, to be a leader, to do what is right. I failed, not because I never reached that, but because I failed to see my own ceiling.
But that doesn't make me feel proud. I have nothing going for me intellectually or physically. I only have a degree because my mother forced me to get it, and most colleges are just degree mills, it isn't hard to get if you just show up with a pulse and a pencil. Military was the only thing I felt could give me something to feel good about. In the real world, I can't get promoted due to intelligence, but maybe in the Army if I just worked hard I could get promoted. I of course was wrong about that. Now having spent a lot of time in uniform, I know that I wouldn't make a good leader. Even if I had to chance to make E5 today, I would pass, because someone like me shouldn't be in that position. I am a career E4, and that's all I'm really good enough for. It hurts to come to that realization, to realize you're nothing special. Ever since I was a kid I wanted to be in the military, to be a leader, to do what is right. I failed, not because I never reached that, but because I failed to see my own ceiling.
1LT (Join to see)
SPC J Donavan Keep working through this. You're making some smart observations but I see a thick layer of pessimism that is preventing you from seeing the bigger picture of what it means to serve.
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
CPT (Join to see) - .. While I was Employed By The Clark County School District, I Met A Teacher, Who Told Me In Confidence, He'd Never Even Taken A College Course To Become A Teacher.. His Family Was Rather Wealth And Paid Another Person To Attend College For Him. In Exchange, They'd Pay His College Tuition. It Worked Out Quite Well Because, In The 12 Years I'd Know Him, On Two Events He'd Became The "Teacher Of The Year", And He Really Was A Great Teacher,; But I Was The Only One Who Knew He Didn't Actually Have A Degree Of Any Type What-So-Ever -
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google