Posted on Jun 2, 2023
How hard is it to chapter a Soldier with an approved retirement date?
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This is just a research question because I couldn’t find a solid answer in the regs.
Retirement
Discharge
Career Counselor
Career Advice
Posted 11 mo ago
Responses: 52
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If he is retiring, leave him alone. It used to aggravate me that ring bangers were so GI. He has done his time, why would anyone want to harass him now? Maybe he is old and worn out and cannot do PT like a 20 yoa soldier or a few too many beers have swollen his gut a bit, but that not a reason to throw him out short of his retirement
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MAJ Darnell Stokes
I totally agree with you. I recently retired after over 28yrs and a SFC was retiring at the same time. His CMD was trying to chapter him because he was trying to take care of himself to transition out. I personally took him to the CG and had him explain to him what they were doing. Needless to say it didn't go to well for them. If you've served your time honorably and have an approved retirement date, then the unit should count that person as a loss. However, most like to get every drop of blood out of you.
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SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott
I agree with Major Reams-leave him alone and let him retire! He's earned it with his years of service! My husband went through this back in 1983 when he had to be extended for 2 months to meet his 20 years. The CO at that time was a real pain and was refusing to extend him because he couldn't run the mile in PT. His Battalion Commander stepped in, and my husband was able to complete his 20 years and retire.
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Since it likely means that Soldier has over 18 years of AFS (otherwise they wouldn't have an approved retirement date), you'll have an extremely high bar that has to be met because you'd be bumping up against federal law*. Because of this, HQDA must approve any involuntary discharge of a Soldier with 18 years or more of service unless it's due to the sentence of a court-martial or for physical disability.
This doesn't mean you can't process a Soldier to be discharged under another separation chapter, but it will likely have to be for serious misconduct (i.e., Chapter 10, 14, etc), and the separation will have to be approved at the Department level. If you were thinking along the lines of failure of the ABCP or something of the like, it likely would be a waste of time as the totality of service is considered when possibly denying an eligible Solider their retirement.
This doesn't mean a commander's hands are tied regarding other administration actions, if warranted, just that if anything affects the retirement it will have to be staffed through HRC to the approval authority (SECARMY or designated rep).
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* 10 U.S. Code § 1176 (retention of enlisted members with more than 18, but less than 20, years of service) - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/1176
* https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Enlisted%20Separations%20Process
This doesn't mean you can't process a Soldier to be discharged under another separation chapter, but it will likely have to be for serious misconduct (i.e., Chapter 10, 14, etc), and the separation will have to be approved at the Department level. If you were thinking along the lines of failure of the ABCP or something of the like, it likely would be a waste of time as the totality of service is considered when possibly denying an eligible Solider their retirement.
This doesn't mean a commander's hands are tied regarding other administration actions, if warranted, just that if anything affects the retirement it will have to be staffed through HRC to the approval authority (SECARMY or designated rep).
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* 10 U.S. Code § 1176 (retention of enlisted members with more than 18, but less than 20, years of service) - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/1176
* https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Enlisted%20Separations%20Process
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CPT (Join to see)
Sir, You are very much like the Buddha of Perscom! You should have made it to GenOff.
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CPT (Join to see)
They do what they want and then try to "wash their habs of it." They did in my case. Been there. Done that. Still fighting.they kniw that if they do what they want it is up to you to fight it. Then, if you win, it is up to the Board of "Corrections" to fix it, which in most cases they will not do regardless of a Federal Court's opinion.
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Suspended Profile
MAJ Taylor, I think some of the comments to you from others are quite good. BUT...the Soldier's commander (if that's not you) doesn't have to guess about this. The commander's resource in this case is your command's Inspector General (IG).
My Brigade CSM and I would frequently use the IG to clarify policies and responsibilities prescribed in various regulations; even when we thought that we had the answer, or reasonably could understand the regulation. In this regard, Co and Bn Cmd teams should also employ the IG. Importantly, some regulations will state that the "commander MUST initiate a separation action" based on the deficiency/offense. In this case of a Soldier with an approved retirement, the IG can clarify the regulation and tell the commander what responsibilities and what options the Cdr has.
Save yourself time and headache and engage your IG and make a sound decision using good judgment.
My Brigade CSM and I would frequently use the IG to clarify policies and responsibilities prescribed in various regulations; even when we thought that we had the answer, or reasonably could understand the regulation. In this regard, Co and Bn Cmd teams should also employ the IG. Importantly, some regulations will state that the "commander MUST initiate a separation action" based on the deficiency/offense. In this case of a Soldier with an approved retirement, the IG can clarify the regulation and tell the commander what responsibilities and what options the Cdr has.
Save yourself time and headache and engage your IG and make a sound decision using good judgment.
PO1 Rick Serviss
I used to speak with the Enlisted Retirement Section at Navy Headquarters and was told that once a sailor is approved for retirement, it’s damn near impossible to reverse. A lot of planning goes into it like programming a relief, etc.
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PO1 (Join to see)
SGT Drew Clifton - Glad to know that barracks lawyers are still gainfully employed across the services. /sarcasm
My first job in the Navy was a payroll clerk on an aircraft carrier. The amount of people that "knew" more than I did about pay and entitlements was astounding. Then I would point them to look up what they thought they knew in the DODFMR, and suddenly, I would get deer in the headlight looks back. "What's that?" they would ask. "Oh, it's just the rules and regs for that which you claim to have extensive knowledge about. Funny how you don't know what it's there for."
My first job in the Navy was a payroll clerk on an aircraft carrier. The amount of people that "knew" more than I did about pay and entitlements was astounding. Then I would point them to look up what they thought they knew in the DODFMR, and suddenly, I would get deer in the headlight looks back. "What's that?" they would ask. "Oh, it's just the rules and regs for that which you claim to have extensive knowledge about. Funny how you don't know what it's there for."
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PO1 Rick Serviss
PO1 (Join to see) - Were you a DK or PS? I retired in 2000 as a PN1. Spent a lot of time on ships, mostly small boys.
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CPT (Join to see)
The IG does NOTHING. All the IG can do is "suggest." Been there. Done that. Did not help. Commanders dont have to take advice from IG or EEOC at any level. When I went to my IG at Benning (sgt King) he told me "it is not an IG issue." Well sorry if I though that giving a order physically impossible to follow was an IG issue. But that is when I learned the truth that they can do anything that they want, and then it is up to you to try and make things right. The only people that are in your corner are your peers and the commander dont have to listen to them either. That is fact. Lrarned that the hard way.
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