Posted on Mar 15, 2016
SSG Carlos Madden
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COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM
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- A few thoughts:
- Short answer: Yes, USMA does compare to Ivy League Schools academically.
- Long answer. "compare academically" is really a vague term. Better definition is needed but some criteria to use to evaluate can include but are not limited to: # applicants, # applicants accepted, # scholars (Rhodes, other), quality of faculty, quality of curriculum. Additional criteria and data can be obtained from several primary and secondary sources such as the schools themselves and the annual US News and World Report edition comparing colleges.
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SSG Carlos Madden
SSG Carlos Madden
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Thank you Sir. What I'm really curious about is how did you feel, personally, about the courses you took there compared to what some of your peers may have said who went to Ivy League schools?
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COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM
COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM
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SSG Madden, the courses and the faculty are/were comparable in my opinion. There are differences in cost between Ivy League and non Ivy League that have more to do with prestige and networking than with differences in quality of academics. At the end of the day, a person gets out of an education what they put into it.
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MAJ Tex Hall
MAJ Tex Hall
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The other thing that you have there is that Cadets can't "buy term papers" like they do at other schools. ALL work done has to be your own, nothing from others. We couldn't even Xerox somebody else's notes if a test was open notes. You could hand copy if allowed, but not photocopy.
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LTC Stephen F.
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When I was a cadet from 1976 to 1980 USMA at West Point compared well in many respects to the Ivy League schools undergraduate programs. Since the military training was somewhat unique to west Point that didn't compare. However academically we compared favorably but as cadet that didn't matter to us at all because we had most of our days taken up with academics, physical activities including sports, drill and ceremony, studying at night, etc. Our days were pretty full from about 0600 to 2200 or so. After plebe year we had some weekends we could take off Saturday afternoon to Sunday evening. I expect that the program is similar and expect it is still challenging to meet the entrance requirements.
The fact that were paid to attend school while Ivy League schools tended to be expensive.
Our salary wasn't much because we were given 50 of a 2LT salary from some time in the 1960's When I was there and most of the money was held to pay for our educational materials - slide rule, books, uniforms, etc. Eventually once hand held calculators were functional we traded in slide rules for calculators. Now cadets have personnel computers and probably tablets by now.
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SPC David S.
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As a former USAFA cadet and having received an appointment from both the USAFA and USMA and as well received an acceptance letter from Columbia and a full ride offer from Brown I feel confident in saying the selection process is similar. There is the one caveat in needing a congressional nomination for a service academy but other than that the schools are pulling from the same pool of candidates. As to the comparison in academics I can only offer a rather subjective answer as I did attend Rollins College. While only being $900 cheaper per year than Harvard I would consider Rollins a bottom shelf ivy league school. However all of my instructors at Rollins had a PhD. I can't say the say the same for Air Force. Class size was about the same (about 15) as Rollins' student population was very similar in size at around 5,000. The instructors were more approachable at Rollins often having dinners at their houses and as well would go out with their students and just hang out with them. Albeit as the students would usually buy - who doesn't like free drinks. The one thing, in retrospect, is that the teachers at Rollins were more interested in how your education was going to be applied than that at Air Force. As far as the information gleaned from the academics I would say the schools were equally academically challenging but I feel that could be again subjective based on instructors and courses.
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PO1 Charles Becker
PO1 Charles Becker
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I strongly disagree that having a PhD makes for a more efffective instructor. In fact, I'd say there is a weak but noticeable inverse relationship.
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SPC David S.
SPC David S.
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The evidence is somewhat mixed, but it suggests that teachers’ knowledge of their subject matter, as measured by degrees, courses, and certification in that area, is associated with high performance. Studies with more detailed measures of teachers’ education levels and coursework in subject areas found that, at least in math and science, academic preparation does positively influence student achievement. Having an advanced degree in subjects outside of math and science, however, does not appear to affect student achievement. However teaching of higher-level courses seems to require greater knowledge of subject matter than does the teaching of lower-level courses. So a PhD teaching an undergrad vs someone with a masters has little impact however the PhD will have a better scholarly understanding in teaching at a masters level. It seems course and level influence have some bearing. Kind of explains why we don't have PhD's teaching Pre-K as the scholarly understanding of the subject matter is not transferable or necessary. I will agree however that a Phd shouldn't necessarily be regarded as the sole determinant in selecting or branding a professor as a good instructor.
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