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I refer to the pay grade instead of rank because I'd like to know how the other services feel regarding their most senior leaders.
When I was a junior soldier, a captain said something to me that I'll never forget. He said sergeants major are useless. He said there is nothing a sergeant major does that a master sergeant can't do.
Fast forward a couple years, and another officer tells me the same thing.
The majority of soldiers from every rank have expressed their discontent with the sergeant major. Most have no clue what he/she does.
It has been my ultimate goal to earn the rank of sergeant major however I now question what that title even means.
*stands at parade rest*
CPT Maurelli posted a Duffel Blog-inspired discussion about the need for sergeants major. Satire aside and EXCLUDING doctrinal answers, I respectfully ask the scariest question of all time: what do you do sergeant major?
When I was a junior soldier, a captain said something to me that I'll never forget. He said sergeants major are useless. He said there is nothing a sergeant major does that a master sergeant can't do.
Fast forward a couple years, and another officer tells me the same thing.
The majority of soldiers from every rank have expressed their discontent with the sergeant major. Most have no clue what he/she does.
It has been my ultimate goal to earn the rank of sergeant major however I now question what that title even means.
*stands at parade rest*
CPT Maurelli posted a Duffel Blog-inspired discussion about the need for sergeants major. Satire aside and EXCLUDING doctrinal answers, I respectfully ask the scariest question of all time: what do you do sergeant major?
Posted in these groups: 
Senior Leaders
Senior Leaders
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 87
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I've felt that way about a few O-3's I've met in my day too. It doesn't mean the entire pay grade is useless.
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Someone has to "speak truth to power" and consequences be damned. Must that invariably be the CSM? No not necessarily. In fact one hopes someone else (Bn or BDE XO for example) would be the first to sound any alarms. But I view the CSM as Nathan the prophet who called out King David when all others were mum and cowed.
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YES! but there are some who need to move out! i have met many who were there just for the politics, to secure a retirement job, or because they didn't have the skills to hold a job after retirement. Sorry, but they need to go. I have met a lot more who continue to live by and enforce the NCO Creed, the Army Values, and take care of their solders, officers and enlisted alike. We need more of them. I would not reduce their rank. heck, i would like to see a few E10s supporting some senior 4 star commands.
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What rank is actually needed. seems that the CSM that these officers are complaining about, actually does the job. see, one of his jobs is to train MSG to become the future. So in end, MSG can fill in. But then again, why would you need a Major, ive met some pretty good battle captains, or Colonels, I know some aces at LTC.
the reason is, experience and authority. you can be sharp as all hell. I was usually considered as one of the smartest guys. but I lacked experience. I made7 in 7 years. but I lacked experience. it took a great CSM to mentor me into the leader I am today. I actually care for Soldiers instead of being "balls to the wall - all gun-ho".
he told me that hed been a CSM for 4 years. and that often when I spoke to him, he felt like he needed to be at parade rest. he taught me a lot. he wasn't regarded as one of the best CSM by many of his peers. but he taught me more than all the others combined, at the time.
I feel I am ten times the leader now because of this CSM. and I have continued to grow by learning from all the SGM/CSM that I have contact with. im still a little rough around the edges, but they keep mentoring me and fixing me. in time, I will be able to do this to SFC and MSG out there. there is a need for them. more so than any staff officer (a little defensive) but my opinion. Are there some bad leaders, yes. but there are more good ones.
finally, to these officers. tell them their job is to improve the fox hole. not break down the walls and fill in the sumps. supporting their NCOs would be better than justifying their "unneed" for the grade. the mission is important, but it would never get done without the private. the CSM is there for the private. not for the staff!
the reason is, experience and authority. you can be sharp as all hell. I was usually considered as one of the smartest guys. but I lacked experience. I made7 in 7 years. but I lacked experience. it took a great CSM to mentor me into the leader I am today. I actually care for Soldiers instead of being "balls to the wall - all gun-ho".
he told me that hed been a CSM for 4 years. and that often when I spoke to him, he felt like he needed to be at parade rest. he taught me a lot. he wasn't regarded as one of the best CSM by many of his peers. but he taught me more than all the others combined, at the time.
I feel I am ten times the leader now because of this CSM. and I have continued to grow by learning from all the SGM/CSM that I have contact with. im still a little rough around the edges, but they keep mentoring me and fixing me. in time, I will be able to do this to SFC and MSG out there. there is a need for them. more so than any staff officer (a little defensive) but my opinion. Are there some bad leaders, yes. but there are more good ones.
finally, to these officers. tell them their job is to improve the fox hole. not break down the walls and fill in the sumps. supporting their NCOs would be better than justifying their "unneed" for the grade. the mission is important, but it would never get done without the private. the CSM is there for the private. not for the staff!
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Absolutely they are needed....it sounds like the officers who made those comments have had too many bad experiences with CSM / SGMs than they have good ones. Although I have had my share of questionable E-9s in my career, I have also had the previledge of serving with some of the best E-9s our military has to offer. The "good" ones can offer wisdom and advise that is meant to guide officers in our decision making, as well as advocate for the benefit of all Soldiers (not just enlisted).
I think a better question might be.....do we need to look at how the services are selecting E-8s to the rank of E-9?
But, in the end, I say YES, without a doubt we need them!
I think a better question might be.....do we need to look at how the services are selecting E-8s to the rank of E-9?
But, in the end, I say YES, without a doubt we need them!
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Unless we are talking about the Senior Enlisted Adviser, you could ask the O-1's and O-2's in your unit to find the value in an E-9. I agree for the most part an E-8 or even an E-7 could do much of the work of an E-9. It is in their junior officer advisory role that an E-9 has the greatest benefit.
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From a Navy perspective, the Master Chief provides quite a bit, but the specifics are different, depending on the community and platform.
In Reactor Department, MMCMs (oh, and those other ratings) hold the nuclear side of the Chief's mess together. They provide direction and guidance to a department that has more sailors than many combatant ships. After their RDMC (Reactor Department Master Chief) tour, they often become technical assistants or Div-Os for supporting divisions outside the big five. What they bring to the table that nobody else can, though, is the ability to play the court jester - the one person who can tell truth to the king.
Does that mean it MUST be an E-9? Not really. Hell, most submarines don't even have one. The Chief of the Boat (COB) is usually a Senior Chief (E-9), as is the Engineering Department Master Chief (EDMC) - who is sometimes on his post-COB tour. If there's a Master Chief on a boat, it's often because the EDMC made it during his tour.
On the air side of the house, the guy who runs the maintenance show is the Maintenance Master Chief - it's not bars and oak leafs running things - even on a mighty, mighty CVN, but a guy wearing anchors. Sure, if you got rid of E-9, it would just a senior E-8. And if you got rid of both, it would be a very seasoned Chief... but all you're doing is getting rid of pay grades - not job.
In Reactor Department, MMCMs (oh, and those other ratings) hold the nuclear side of the Chief's mess together. They provide direction and guidance to a department that has more sailors than many combatant ships. After their RDMC (Reactor Department Master Chief) tour, they often become technical assistants or Div-Os for supporting divisions outside the big five. What they bring to the table that nobody else can, though, is the ability to play the court jester - the one person who can tell truth to the king.
Does that mean it MUST be an E-9? Not really. Hell, most submarines don't even have one. The Chief of the Boat (COB) is usually a Senior Chief (E-9), as is the Engineering Department Master Chief (EDMC) - who is sometimes on his post-COB tour. If there's a Master Chief on a boat, it's often because the EDMC made it during his tour.
On the air side of the house, the guy who runs the maintenance show is the Maintenance Master Chief - it's not bars and oak leafs running things - even on a mighty, mighty CVN, but a guy wearing anchors. Sure, if you got rid of E-9, it would just a senior E-8. And if you got rid of both, it would be a very seasoned Chief... but all you're doing is getting rid of pay grades - not job.
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I think its just a rank to help pass the time while you wait on retirement, all my 9's were pretty much useless and did nothing but walk around Bn doing the jobs that we Lower NCo's did. Some were cool and some not was an even mix,only had one bad experience with one of them.
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Of course Sergeants Major are a very necessary position in all levels at and above the battalion throughout the military... at least until I make the rank. Once I retire we can sit down at have this discussion again.
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I find it strange that people would think that this question is 'brave'. I have a couple of very good friends that are a CSM and a SGM respectively (Nope, neither in my CoC, one is retired and one is stationed in a different state). Anyway, as long as you are respectful, I don't see why people are scared of them. There job is to be that person that you don't ever want to be called to the carpet. Why are we conditioned to be scared to talk to senior leaders? Obviously, you aren't going to roll up and chat about what app you want to download, but it should be stressed that if warranted, they should be encouraged to talk to their senior leaders.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
You bring a good point. Never be afraid to talk to a SGM/CSM. They are there to listen. They're not your buddy, but they are your mentor. And now I'm mentoring you: Check your spelling before posting and make sure you're using the correct their instead of there. Not a big deal, but attention to detail. Before hitting that enter key, just review. Sometime it will help down the road.
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