Posted on Feb 26, 2016
Are groups like the American Legion and VFW too Right Wing Conservative for the new generation of Veterans?
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Given the societal change in this country that has been integrated into the Armed Forces, do younger veterans share the same views and attitudes of the traditional veterans clubs?
Are you uncomfortable participating when everyone else is considerably older and have different views? Should religion and politics be a focal point for Veterans Organizations?
Are you uncomfortable participating when everyone else is considerably older and have different views? Should religion and politics be a focal point for Veterans Organizations?
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 64
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No their not to conservative in fact they are supposed to be non-partisan, with their only focus being helping vets so religion and politics has nothing to do with these organizations. If you have been a member as you say then you would know this, if however the posts you have been a member of allows this you need to bring this up at a members meeting citing in the constitution and by laws that the post is out of order promoting these views. The climate today presented by what is referred to as a commander in chief is one of divisiveness and contempt for those he serves. The inherent problem with these organizations with younger vets is their inability to change. Many younger vets such as myself and my wife have tried to be a helping force within the organization in the state we reside, unfortunately those who have been in the organizations longer and are of an older generation do not want to and in some cases vehemently refuse to change with the times. All to often when new vets with ideas bring them up to the established good old boys club they are shot down at every turn. Women are not treated any better, my wife on numerous occasions has been made to feel that her 20+ years of service and the fact that she is a disabled combat vet counted for nothing due to her gender. Now this is not the feeling of all the males in these organizations but when this behavior is brought up to the sections at the National level the response is that there is nothing that can be done about it. In the state we reside these organizations offer many programs but the majority of the time none of them are pursued due to complete lack of interest from the members who are retired and have time to give to them, ultimately turning the organizations into nothing more than recruiting posts to replenish the losses from those member who see no value in continued associations. You may not like this post, you may not agree with it but in my state this is the reality of the organizations and until the thought process of the good old boys changes, or they simply die off nothing else will and these organizations will die along with them.
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SSG Michael Patton
SSgt Lars Eilenfeld, I totally agree with your statement. The situation here in Arkansas is the same. The older generation swaps post positions and over ride the younger vets on everything, to the extent that the younger guys leave the posts to do something relevant elsewhere.
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MSG Mitch Dowler
I am not familiar with IAVA and I don't see that they are sanctioned by Congress as the great Veterans organizations are. I have actually seen some post 9/11 Veteran groups participating in anti-war demonstrations near JBLM over the years and one coffee shop oriented group was also known to help AWOL soldiers and deserters. I remain leery of such groups and know that the sanctioned groups have service officers with direct access to VA to help with claims where non-sanctioned groups may give advice and help but can not legally represent a Veteran in the same way the sanctioned service officers can.
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LTC Martin Metz
I know what you mean on the politically active groups that only represent a small, non-representative sample of Vets. Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, is an advocacy group dedicated to United States veterans of the War in Iraq and War in Afghanistan. Founded in 2004, IAVA the first and largest nonprofit, nonpartisan organization for new veterans. With over 200,000 Member Veterans and supporters nationwide, IAVA's role is to support the 2.4 million veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan. I mentioned the IAVA (http://iava.org/ ) as an example of an organization that is very active and probably has appeal to the some of the younger Vets. This particular organization requires proof of veteran status and focused more on Vet advocacy needs and programs rather than taking a anti-war mind set. I encourage everyone to do their own research to ensure they have a good appreciation of what they are doing and getting into.
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LTC Martin Metz
GORUCK (http://www.goruck.com/) is a non-political organization. GORUCK is based on the lessons its founder Jason McCarthy learned from his service in the Special Forces community in training and in war. McCarthy's goals with GORUCK are to (1) serve as a voice for good, (2) employ more Veterans of Special Operations than any organization outside the US military, and (3) build a bridge between the military and civilian worlds. They sponsor Challenge events all over the country with folks from all walks of life rucking together. Many of these fun events have room to include the whole family. My teenage high school sophomore grandson is looking forward to doing one of the events for Seattle in June. It will have some moderately physical and mentally challenging tasks supervised by former "quite professionals".
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Call it right wing or left wing. The simple fact is there are some common sense things that we as veterans hold as truths,
Honor and defend the constitution from enemies foreign and Domestic
Do not spend more that you make
Protect the American People
Stand by your fellow veterans
Support the military
Help Veterans in Need.
And LDRSHIP
Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Selfless Service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage
Call it what you will - I am a Patriot and hold to my right to Worship as I please, To Work Hard, To volunteer as much as I can in my community. I am so tired of this give me mentality. Get up, Get your ass to work, and make your world a better place. We are not far right because we believe in God, Country, and Family. This is what the country was founded on. Stop listening to the Liberal Lies. Do your own research, America has done more good than harm.
Honor and defend the constitution from enemies foreign and Domestic
Do not spend more that you make
Protect the American People
Stand by your fellow veterans
Support the military
Help Veterans in Need.
And LDRSHIP
Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Selfless Service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage
Call it what you will - I am a Patriot and hold to my right to Worship as I please, To Work Hard, To volunteer as much as I can in my community. I am so tired of this give me mentality. Get up, Get your ass to work, and make your world a better place. We are not far right because we believe in God, Country, and Family. This is what the country was founded on. Stop listening to the Liberal Lies. Do your own research, America has done more good than harm.
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SFC J Fullerton
SGT James Hammons - Having a post home and resources sure does help in having events to draw people in. Our only exposure to the community has been standing in the median with a bucket collecting donations. They love it because in one day they collected 2k without having to do anything but stand there with bucket as cars drive by. But doesn't do anything to connect with community. My one vote isn't going to change anything, but I won't panhandle for anybody.
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SFC (Join to see)
I don't think it has really a lot to do with political leanings per say as the actual membership of most posts vary from left to right and the National headquarters are trying their best to stay middle of the road politically.
My observations as a 26 year member of both the Legion and VFW is that the frustration comes with individual Post complacency by some of the older vets who just want their cheap beer and are happy to let the Auxiliary do all the program work. The younger folks are not like that and want to be out front doing the programs rather than swilling the beer. They get frustrated when they find themselves and their ideas marginalized or blown off and drift till they find like minded veterans. That, in my opinion, is what is driving more than a few away and leaving hard heads like me to try and carry on.
My observations as a 26 year member of both the Legion and VFW is that the frustration comes with individual Post complacency by some of the older vets who just want their cheap beer and are happy to let the Auxiliary do all the program work. The younger folks are not like that and want to be out front doing the programs rather than swilling the beer. They get frustrated when they find themselves and their ideas marginalized or blown off and drift till they find like minded veterans. That, in my opinion, is what is driving more than a few away and leaving hard heads like me to try and carry on.
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SPC Franklin McKown
I have been on the Facebook 19D Cavalry scout page ,they have personally aided me in times of need ,sent money and we help each other as we can. Going out in public is difficult for some.
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Cpl (Join to see)
I went once, and they looked at me like I came from another planet. Never went back, rather spend my money on dues to a motorcycle club.
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When the VFW didn't endorse Tammy Duckworth and endorsed a non veteran instead. That was the end of my respect & membership. Up until that, I had been a member sense 1965. Keep Religion & Politics outside the club.
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I 69 years old and a Vietnam veteran. I was placed on the PDL (disability) after nearly 13 years active service. The local legion is very active in my community and supports many activities. Annual parades, school visits, spending time each month at the local veterans nursing home and interacts with the in-house veterans. I do believe the younger veterans have slightly different views but would like to see more of them join. Membership changes from generation to generation and perhaps moving in a different direction isn't a bad concept.
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At 55 as a retiree I don't consider myself part of the new generation of Veterans. I'm a member of both the VFW and the American Legion but I'm not very active. I'm not a conservative, but have other reasons besides politics for not being more active in the American Legion and VFW. I support the Lobbying that these organizations do on behalf of veterans on a National level (and that's why I maintain my membership). I find at the local level the Legion Posts and VFW are more social clubs and the activities revolve more around maintaining the bar business than they do serving the needs of veterans. I just don't have the time to go to meetings for the sake of going to a meeting and then hitting the bar. There are many activities and groups who we can devote our time to, and I just don't have the time to devote to an organization who at least at the local level is more about maintaining the post home as a cheap place to drink, than it is about helping veterans with their issues. If they were actively trying to raise money to help local veterans with important issues ie: Help with Job placement, homelessness, counselling and treatment for addictions, etc. I would be more inclined to be active.
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MAJ Joe C Mayfield
Why are we seeing the hats of VFW, American Legion or both, at Trump rallies as bouncers and abusing protesters? If they want to do that, take the hats off, you give AL & VFW a bad name.
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SGT James George
MAJ Joe C Mayfield - as much as i agree, i also must mention, you see black panthers showing up for black leaders providing 'thug-like' support for the same things.
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SSG Ray Elliott
CPO Greg Smith - I've suggested programs in the past, and have even offered to organize and run them. Brought it up at a meeting that we should be doing more for the Veterans at the VA hospital about a 40 Min. drive from our post, I threw out some ideas. Not a single member thought it was something we should pursue. The members at my post don't seem to be interested in doing anything. I've found other places to volunteer my time with people who are receptive to actually working on something.
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CPO Greg Smith
SSG Ray Elliott since I reference President Obama in the post to which you are replying, I guess it's a few years old. Anyhow, we are the same age and I get your point. I'm a past Post, District, and State Commander. There are still some awesome posts doing great work, but the VFW leadership has chosen to stay locked in the past, mired in old style smoke filled room politics. I have done some volunteer work with CVMA and recently joined Team Rubicon. Good luck.
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I really don't think that a question of conservative or liberal is the question. The veterans that I know just want to do something constructive. Many of the posts just "are". They have meetings to discuss nothing and very mundane issues. We need more posts both VFW and American Legion to get involved in homeless veteran issues/education issues and finding activities for disabled veterans. That is why some competing organizations have sprung up. Just my opinion.....
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The military, in and of itself, tends to be conservative in nature. As such, veterans tend to adopt many of those traits as well. This follows into civilian life for many.
Many of the founders of the major VSOs had their ideas treated as radically liberal by some in society. The thought in the early 1900s that a person who served their country should be accorded special consideration in regards to health care, educational benefits and disability compensation was greeted with shock.
Our rituals and ceremonies are no different from any other fraternal order or society in their basis going back to the founding days of the organization.
I first joined the VFW and Legion when I was in the service at the age of 24, so I guess I have a slightly different perspective in that I became as active as duty considerations allowed and at one point received the MOVSM for the stuff I was doing with the local veterans.
Many of the founders of the major VSOs had their ideas treated as radically liberal by some in society. The thought in the early 1900s that a person who served their country should be accorded special consideration in regards to health care, educational benefits and disability compensation was greeted with shock.
Our rituals and ceremonies are no different from any other fraternal order or society in their basis going back to the founding days of the organization.
I first joined the VFW and Legion when I was in the service at the age of 24, so I guess I have a slightly different perspective in that I became as active as duty considerations allowed and at one point received the MOVSM for the stuff I was doing with the local veterans.
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If VSO's are politically neutral and not allowed to endorse candidates in uniform, then this is a bad image.
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SFC J Fullerton
This ugly incident at the Trump rally in Louisville has gone viral now. The American Legion has announced on their website that the individual in the veterans club hat shoving and yelling at the protester is NOT wearing a Legion cap. It does not appear to be a VFW cap either, as both are black with gold piping. The hat in the picture has white piping. The logo is tough to make out, but is not TAL or VFW. Not sure what the cap represents. The AL has also issued an announcement reminding its membership of the rules with attending political events in uniform.
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SFC J Fullerton
Apparently the clown who shamed his organization is wearing a Korean War Veterans Association cap and uniform, according to the feedback on the AL website.
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