Posted on Aug 15, 2018
Are officers and enlisted with prior relationship with each other really allowed to continue the relationship?
87.4K
51
32
5
5
0
The AFI seems clear there is to be no personal relationship between officers and enlisted, including friendship or dating. But I heard if they had a prior relationship (dating or just friends) before the officer commissioned, and they are not in each other's chain of command, the relationship can stand or progress. Is there a regulation or supplement stating this?
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 15
Yes. Pretty clear: prior relationships are grandfathered.
One of my 3 best friends in this world was an Army SGT long before I was commissioned as as a USAF 2LT
One of my 3 best friends in this world was an Army SGT long before I was commissioned as as a USAF 2LT
(7)
(0)
MSG Reid Zohfeld
well I guess the other gold rank is coming out. If you are really in the Army you know that in 1999 or 2000 a relation between commission and non-commission was nixed.
There are no grand father clauses
One up or down and couples married or not can not be in the same section and if I had a command married or couple would not be in the same unit.
It makes me sad that the Army I love has taken such a turn that I am glad I am retired
There are no grand father clauses
One up or down and couples married or not can not be in the same section and if I had a command married or couple would not be in the same unit.
It makes me sad that the Army I love has taken such a turn that I am glad I am retired
(0)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
Sounds like we’re all glad you’re retired.
My bro is not in my chain.
We’re both professional: we don’t hang out in uniform together, he refers to me in the third person as “Rank, Last-Name”, and when we happen to cross paths he salutes sharply and gives the greeting of the day, “Sir!”
Fokker even calls me Sir on the phone when we talk off-line.
My bro is not in my chain.
We’re both professional: we don’t hang out in uniform together, he refers to me in the third person as “Rank, Last-Name”, and when we happen to cross paths he salutes sharply and gives the greeting of the day, “Sir!”
Fokker even calls me Sir on the phone when we talk off-line.
(0)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
And don’t y’all even think I’m weak on good order and discipline.
The other day my protege who’s (P) to my rank said he was confused what to call me (in an .mil email) because I don’t go by given name. I told him it was an easy multiple choice test: Sir or Major. Same as I give y’all the respect of your “Rank, Last-Name”. You earned your title, and I won’t take that away from you with this Air-Force corporate culture BS of, IF I outrank YOU I get to call you by your first name
The other day my protege who’s (P) to my rank said he was confused what to call me (in an .mil email) because I don’t go by given name. I told him it was an easy multiple choice test: Sir or Major. Same as I give y’all the respect of your “Rank, Last-Name”. You earned your title, and I won’t take that away from you with this Air-Force corporate culture BS of, IF I outrank YOU I get to call you by your first name
(0)
(0)
There’s an exception for the Reserve Component. Otherwise the restriction is very clear. Some Commanders may choose to look the other way but you can’t count on it. I’ve known officer-enlisted married couples. But they were rare in my time on active duty.
(6)
(0)
SrA (Join to see)
Thank you sir! So when I eventually commission or one of my friends commissions, we just kind of have to drop contact?
(1)
(0)
SMSgt Thor Merich
The funny parts about the Regs is that as enlisted you cannot date an officer but it’s ok to marry one.
(2)
(0)
I know in the army that prior relationship clause only counts for those that are to be married or are otherwise related.
(5)
(0)
SSG John Potter
This is not exactly what we are discussing here - but I had a friend that was in the reserves- his company commander worked for him in civilian life, he on the other hand was his company clerk …! My friend said they never had a problem- kind of weird though……
(0)
(0)
Officer and Enlisted relationships really depends on what kind of relationship it is. If it is a romantic relationship, Army regulation states, you have up to one year from commissioning to get married or end the relationship. If it is a friendship there is no policy that states that an officer can not be friends with an enlisted member. However, it is all about perception. If it is perceived that the friendship undermines good order and discipline then it can be construed as an unprofessional relationship. Much like others have stated, if it is a life long or service long friendship then I, personally, would not end it. But, I would not bring any attention to the friendship either. If it is romantic in nature, I didn't see much in the AFI about this, I would either get married prior to commissioning or end the relationship. This is a tricky one and you have to decide what is the best course of action for you and your career. I hope this helps.
(3)
(0)
ENS (Join to see)
Can you post how to find that specific policy/a link to that policy. Our branch does not allow this liberty. I am working with diversity and inclusion folks to try to make a better policy, because it is felt having no "year to decide" unequally impacts women negatively, especially in regard to certain ethnicities and religions.
(0)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
ENS (Join to see) The regulation is AR 600-20 Paragraph 4-14 (2) a. Here is the link to the reg.
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN3481_p600_35_WEB_FINAL.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwigrebxtIf1AhXpRjABHaenB4oQFnoECAQQBg&usg=AOvVaw2CyEKPJoJi8APq0DQD75va
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN3481_p600_35_WEB_FINAL.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwigrebxtIf1AhXpRjABHaenB4oQFnoECAQQBg&usg=AOvVaw2CyEKPJoJi8APq0DQD75va
(1)
(0)
CW4 (Join to see)
ENS (Join to see) just realized i sent the link for 600-35 this link should work better.
https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?PUB_ID=1020451
https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?PUB_ID=1020451
Army DA administrative publications and forms by the Army Publishing Directorate APD. The latest technologies high quality electronic pubs and forms view U.S. Army Regulations and DA Forms.
(0)
(0)
My girl friend when I got commissioned was a Pfc. my battalion commander told me she’s not in our chain and you had a relationship when you were enlisted. But don’t get a new one.
(2)
(0)
With few exceptions, I think you will find that the friendships become more distant once one of you gains a commission. Even treasured friendships are hard to maintain once one of the friends makes a transition to a different social or cultural circumstance; and even today there is that divide. Officer/Enlisted status in a marriage can be another complication added to the long list of accommodations that marrieds have to make in their adjustment to marriage. Do I have dear friends who were enlisted when we were on active duty? Absolutely, and some of them were SNCOs when our friendship developed, but marriage? I wouldn't recommend unless one member was leaving active duty. It may be allowed, but I would think long and hard about the wisdom of the decision.
(2)
(0)
Plenty of officer-enlisted married couples...Its grandfathered. But they will never in the same COC.
(2)
(0)
It's a tough situation. And it depends on your commander and whether you work with each other. If you do, all bets are off. We had a couple of enlisted officer marriages and the officer was told, no command billets until your spouse gets out or retires. I was always very cautious and professional with my enlisted folks. None of them seemed to mind and many of them are in my life now that we all have retired. I have sworn in some of their kids.
(2)
(0)
The AFI should stand on its own. It should nest with the DoDI. There is no tradespace. The exception is that people may marry, but can date. How you do that I have no idea. If the marriage predates the promotion then it is ok. Had a Company Commander of one company whose husband was a 1SG of another company. Married as E5s.
(2)
(0)
Officer to enlisted marriages are acceptable. Post commission hookups or friendships not so much. Just not a good idea because no matter how you protect it the one time something good happens it will be int he eyes of the others it was because so and so knew so and so and the same withthe bad things if you were to get off the charges...rightfully so doesn't matter...it happened because they made a phone call to thier friend etc and their goes good order and discipline. IMHO...just not a good practice.
(2)
(0)
SrA (Join to see)
Thank you sir! So when I or one of my friends commissions one day, we better drop contact, is that right?
(1)
(0)
Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
SrA (Join to see) - I k now what the regs say and what is acceptable...however, you have to live your own life. Can't turn off lifelong battle hardened friendships on a dime. Just be careful and make sure there is no way a connection and chain of command can be made. Shoot for the stars for commissioning but never forget where you come from. Worked for me and I still have lifelong friends I served with when I was enlisted.
(1)
(0)
CPT William Jones
That just sounds dumb to this old soldier. Or is it clear on AD what officer/enlisted vs enlisted/officer relationship. Seems like it really makes no difference which is senior. In today’s alleged seamless gender application who is senior makes no difference. An O4and aE5. I see nothing indicating gender.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next