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From "The Independent"
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/islamic-history-is-full-of-free-thinkers--but-recent-attempts-to-suppress-critical-thought-are-verging-on-the-absurd-9993777.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=*Democracy%20Lab&utm_campaign=Democracy%20Lab%20Weekly%20Brief%2C%20Jan.%2026%2C%202015
Islamic history is full of free thinkers - but recent attempts to suppress critical thought are verging on the absurd
"This has nothing to do with Islam," say the imams. "These callous and fanatic murders have nothing to do with us," say the mullahs. "Islam means peace," say the worshippers. These disclaimers, and variations on them, have been repeated countless times by Muslim commentators since the Charlie Hebdo killings. They are designed to distance people from guilt by association with those who kill and maim in the name of Islam.
But what about the sentence recently handed down to the (mildly) liberal blogger Raif Badawi in the Islamic state of Saudi Arabia? Ten years in jail, a massive fine, 1,000 lashes over 20 weeks (currently suspended because the first 50 lashes have rendered him "medically unfit")? Does this have "nothing to do with Islam"? Does the hashtag "Je suis un couteau" – referring to this week's stabbing of 11 Israelis on a bus – have "nothing to do with Islam"? Not to mention the 10 Christians killed during Charlie protests in Niger last week, or the ongoing depredations of al-Qaeda, Isis, Boko Haram, the Taliban and the Laskar Jihad of Indonesia?
The psychotic followers of these organisations all think that they are Muslims, and their Islam is based on beliefs that millions who subscribe to Wahhabism, the Saudi version of the religion – and its kin, Salafism – accept as essential ingredients of their faith. For example, that sharia, or Islamic law, is divinely ordained and immutable; that apostates and blasphemers should be killed; that women should be shrouded and confined to four walls and that men are their guardians.
This is a widespread version of Islam, made more so by modern communications; increasingly gaining followers in Europe, it can be, and is, used to justify all manner of atrocities. Yet this is an Islam of manufactured dogma which relies on neither the Koran nor the example of the Prophet Mohamed.
So where do these beliefs come from? From today's extremist leaders, of course. But also, historically, from caliphs and clerics who realised that religion could perform a very useful function: it could keep the masses in their place and ensure that power remained in the hands of a select few.
[EDITORIAL COMMENT:- It gets even more interesting once you consider the last twenty words of the C&P on a historical basis. Heck, it could even apply to "Open Mouth" radio.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/islamic-history-is-full-of-free-thinkers--but-recent-attempts-to-suppress-critical-thought-are-verging-on-the-absurd-9993777.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=*Democracy%20Lab&utm_campaign=Democracy%20Lab%20Weekly%20Brief%2C%20Jan.%2026%2C%202015
Islamic history is full of free thinkers - but recent attempts to suppress critical thought are verging on the absurd
"This has nothing to do with Islam," say the imams. "These callous and fanatic murders have nothing to do with us," say the mullahs. "Islam means peace," say the worshippers. These disclaimers, and variations on them, have been repeated countless times by Muslim commentators since the Charlie Hebdo killings. They are designed to distance people from guilt by association with those who kill and maim in the name of Islam.
But what about the sentence recently handed down to the (mildly) liberal blogger Raif Badawi in the Islamic state of Saudi Arabia? Ten years in jail, a massive fine, 1,000 lashes over 20 weeks (currently suspended because the first 50 lashes have rendered him "medically unfit")? Does this have "nothing to do with Islam"? Does the hashtag "Je suis un couteau" – referring to this week's stabbing of 11 Israelis on a bus – have "nothing to do with Islam"? Not to mention the 10 Christians killed during Charlie protests in Niger last week, or the ongoing depredations of al-Qaeda, Isis, Boko Haram, the Taliban and the Laskar Jihad of Indonesia?
The psychotic followers of these organisations all think that they are Muslims, and their Islam is based on beliefs that millions who subscribe to Wahhabism, the Saudi version of the religion – and its kin, Salafism – accept as essential ingredients of their faith. For example, that sharia, or Islamic law, is divinely ordained and immutable; that apostates and blasphemers should be killed; that women should be shrouded and confined to four walls and that men are their guardians.
This is a widespread version of Islam, made more so by modern communications; increasingly gaining followers in Europe, it can be, and is, used to justify all manner of atrocities. Yet this is an Islam of manufactured dogma which relies on neither the Koran nor the example of the Prophet Mohamed.
So where do these beliefs come from? From today's extremist leaders, of course. But also, historically, from caliphs and clerics who realised that religion could perform a very useful function: it could keep the masses in their place and ensure that power remained in the hands of a select few.
[EDITORIAL COMMENT:- It gets even more interesting once you consider the last twenty words of the C&P on a historical basis. Heck, it could even apply to "Open Mouth" radio.
Islam
Terrorism
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 30
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By separating the religion from the war you hinder your ability to use our most powerful weapon against the terrorists.
You can win a war two ways, by destroying your enemy or by defeating your enemy. "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. By labeling them terrorists you eliminate any posibility of spiritually challenging Islam Extremists. What we need is a Muslim movement to combat Islamic extremism through Islam. There are plenty of verse in Islam that encourage the extremists, just as there are in the Old Testament. There are also thousands that expound on charity. It is changing the mindset of the normal Muslim where peace can be found. There will never be peace in the middle east until Islam as a whole rejects the "conversion through force/sword" interpretation of Islam. Until that happens there will always be war, unfortunatley our current strategy of separating the religion from it only emboldens the extremists. Imams stating that terrorists are not Muslims only makes the problem worse. The Imams need to stop distancing themselves and start attacking the extreme doctrines.
Treating an insurgency as targets helps to create more targets, the best way to win is through idology. It took Christianity well into the 1800 before separation of church and state took a firm hold, Islam has not had that transition yet, and until they do the wars will never end. We need Positive radical Imams to overcome the tribalism and sectarian issues that keep the middle east in their version of our dark ages.
Unfortunatley this is not a quick fix solution.
You can win a war two ways, by destroying your enemy or by defeating your enemy. "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. By labeling them terrorists you eliminate any posibility of spiritually challenging Islam Extremists. What we need is a Muslim movement to combat Islamic extremism through Islam. There are plenty of verse in Islam that encourage the extremists, just as there are in the Old Testament. There are also thousands that expound on charity. It is changing the mindset of the normal Muslim where peace can be found. There will never be peace in the middle east until Islam as a whole rejects the "conversion through force/sword" interpretation of Islam. Until that happens there will always be war, unfortunatley our current strategy of separating the religion from it only emboldens the extremists. Imams stating that terrorists are not Muslims only makes the problem worse. The Imams need to stop distancing themselves and start attacking the extreme doctrines.
Treating an insurgency as targets helps to create more targets, the best way to win is through idology. It took Christianity well into the 1800 before separation of church and state took a firm hold, Islam has not had that transition yet, and until they do the wars will never end. We need Positive radical Imams to overcome the tribalism and sectarian issues that keep the middle east in their version of our dark ages.
Unfortunatley this is not a quick fix solution.
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COL Ted Mc
Captain; By refusing the terrorists the legitimizing label of "Islamic" you do not separate the religion from the way, but you do separate the terrorists from the religion.
You also make it clear to those who do not support the terrorists' actions that you are not lumping them in with the same crowd as the terrorists merely because the terrorists are claiming an affinity with them.
This, effectively strips the fish of the water to swim in.
The other factor that tends to make things even murkier is whether it is the "terrorists" GOALS or their ACTIONS which are being fought.
What would the position of the government of the United States of America be in the (hypothetical) event of a free, fair, open, and honest election in which 90% of the Iraqis voted to have Iraq become a strict Islamic State that barred all entry to Americans and nationalized all American owned assets inside Iraq (anyone who wanted to leave Iraq would be allowed to do so but they would only be allowed to take as much of their personal possessions as they could carry with them)?
You also make it clear to those who do not support the terrorists' actions that you are not lumping them in with the same crowd as the terrorists merely because the terrorists are claiming an affinity with them.
This, effectively strips the fish of the water to swim in.
The other factor that tends to make things even murkier is whether it is the "terrorists" GOALS or their ACTIONS which are being fought.
What would the position of the government of the United States of America be in the (hypothetical) event of a free, fair, open, and honest election in which 90% of the Iraqis voted to have Iraq become a strict Islamic State that barred all entry to Americans and nationalized all American owned assets inside Iraq (anyone who wanted to leave Iraq would be allowed to do so but they would only be allowed to take as much of their personal possessions as they could carry with them)?
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MAJ (Join to see)
I agree that it attempts to separate the terrorists from the religion but I'm not sold on the effectivness of the approach. I'd prefer a terrorism of false Islam title or something to express the religious consequences in Islam if you set another Muslim Jordanian fighter pilot on fire. The focus needs to be on eradicating ISIS schools their internet propoganda tools, defaming their corrupted version of Islam needs to be a key part of that, not just stating they are not Muslims, but to use Islam to correct their aggregious fallacies in their doctrine.
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LCDR (Join to see)
I could not possibly agree more with a statement than your original post, CPT Glover.
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A terrorist is a terrorist no matter who they are or where they from, anytime a person or group of people want to destroy human lives because of anger or their so-called beliefs is evil.
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MSG Floyd Williams
Any person or group of people who enjoy and promote violence in action in any way physical or mentally is a terrorist or terrorist group.
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COL Ted Mc
MSG Floyd Williams - Master Sergeant; If you don't stick with your first definition or I'm going to sic the WWF on you.
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Just terrorist...We have to be careful because some of our worst terrorist are not muslim. We can't limit our thinking of what a terrorist is. I'm a Muslim, American soldier, firefighter and will lay it all on the line for my family and country and there is never any confusion on where I stand with being a Soldier and Muslim. Keeping a wider perspective if terrorism will help us to minimize the threat here and abroad. Furthermore the young man who raped my 80 year old neighbor for hours was captured, taken to jail, asked for a preacher cause he was a Christian and wanted prayer over him. The Christians I know don't hurt people.He is a terrorist no matter what religion they try to put in front of their crime.
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COL Ted Mc
SFC Jeff L. - Sergeant; when "Islamic Terrorists" commit a statistically insignificant percentage of the "terrorist attacks" then you do have to wonder if we are going after the right group in the right sequence or if we are only acting like a gored bull because "they" had the gall to attack "us".
[Or, possibly, because someone wanted to prove their manhood and picked what they - in their ignorance - thought was the easiest target for "A Short Victorious War".]
PS - "Terrorist Acts" are ALWAYS "Crimes" but "Crimes" are not always "Terrorist Acts". Slaughtering the helpless populace of a conquered country is a "Crime" - we proved that at Nuremberg. Doing it in order to cow/shock/awe/intimidate/frighten the remainder of the populace of that conquered country is a "Terrorist Act" - but we treated it as a "Crime" (possibly because the people doing the slaughtering were "White" and "Christian" and "European" but that's a whole different matter).
[Or, possibly, because someone wanted to prove their manhood and picked what they - in their ignorance - thought was the easiest target for "A Short Victorious War".]
PS - "Terrorist Acts" are ALWAYS "Crimes" but "Crimes" are not always "Terrorist Acts". Slaughtering the helpless populace of a conquered country is a "Crime" - we proved that at Nuremberg. Doing it in order to cow/shock/awe/intimidate/frighten the remainder of the populace of that conquered country is a "Terrorist Act" - but we treated it as a "Crime" (possibly because the people doing the slaughtering were "White" and "Christian" and "European" but that's a whole different matter).
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SFC Jeff L.
COL Ted Mc Ted, I'm calling Shenanigans on this one. "When islamic terrorists commit a statistically insignificant percentage of the terrorist attacks..." You're going to need to cite your source or show your work and define your terms on that one. And, by the way, "thank you" for a) acknowledging and using the term islamic terrorists, and b) validating my point regarding the difference between terrorist acts and crimes.
Now how about that source?
*edited to include callout for col ted mc
Now how about that source?
*edited to include callout for col ted mc
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COL Ted Mc
SFC Jeff L. - Sergeant; There aren't any easily accessible studies which are much later than the one referred to in the following CNN article
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/06/muslim.radicalization.study/
PS - "Statistically significant" on a "one tail test" would be 10% and not the 5% for a "two tail test"
PPS - Please note that i used "Islamic Terrorists" in quotation marks. What that means, in this case, is "those terrorists routinely referred to as 'Islamic' terrorists regardless of whether they are actually acting in accordance with the precepts and teaching of Mohamed".
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/06/muslim.radicalization.study/
PS - "Statistically significant" on a "one tail test" would be 10% and not the 5% for a "two tail test"
PPS - Please note that i used "Islamic Terrorists" in quotation marks. What that means, in this case, is "those terrorists routinely referred to as 'Islamic' terrorists regardless of whether they are actually acting in accordance with the precepts and teaching of Mohamed".
Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated - CNN.com
The terrorist threat posed by radicalized Muslim- Americans has been exaggerated, according to a study released Wednesday by researchers at Duke University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
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SFC Jeff L.
COL Ted Mc Shenanigans. Your orignal assertion didn't make any qualifying conditions. The report you cite only deals with terrorist acts on US soil by persons legally in the US for at least a year before arrest. So, here's one from 2013:
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To me? Just terrorists. I don't care who or what they believe in. I just care that they're using terror tactics to get what they want.
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COL Ted Mc
SPC James Mcneil Agreed. Not only that, but you get a whole lot less resistance from the locals if you are hunting for "Terrorist Murderers" than if you are hunting for "__[insert locally desirable qualifier here]__ Terrorists".
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Relevant http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-foreign-fighters-british-european-western-dying-radicalised-islam-not-strongest-factor-cultural-a7421711.html
How "Christian" is Westboro Baptist Church?
How "Christian" is Westboro Baptist Church?
New report confirms what we all suspected about Isis
Religion is not the strongest driving force behind thousands of foreign fighters joining Isis and other terrorist groups in Iraq and Syria, a report by US military researchers has found. A new study by the Combating Terrorism Center (CTC) at West Point revealed that the vast majority of almost 1,200 militants surveyed had no formal religious education and had not adhered to Islam for their entire lives.
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PFC Roger Goff
The Westboro Baptist Church is an abomination! As for wether or not terrorists who attack in the name of Islam being Islamic Terrorists or not. I can understand why 'moderate' Muslims would try to disassociate themselves from radical Islamic terrorists. I do not understand how 'moderate' Muslims disassociate themselves from the passages in the Koran that call for Muslims to kill infidels or 'kaffirs'? There are a number of similar passages in the Koran that call for this. How is it that a Muslim gets to ignore these parts of their holy text? I ask because I want to understand this seemingly contradictory situation in Islam.
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SPC Greg Carr
There's nothing to escape from. It's just people who don't know what
A: The Qur'an even is
B: How to read and understand the Qur'an on an even basic level.
Here's a good start:
http://spiritualperception.org/top-five-misquotations-of-the-quran/
A: The Qur'an even is
B: How to read and understand the Qur'an on an even basic level.
Here's a good start:
http://spiritualperception.org/top-five-misquotations-of-the-quran/
Top Five Misquotations Of The Qur’an | Spiritual Perception
The recent surge in negative sentiments towards Islam and Muslims has resulted in many attempts to depict the religion as inherently violent. This has also resulted in absurd accusations against the Qur’an. What are the five most frequently misquoted passages in the Qur’an? Do accusations of violence stand up to academic scrutiny, or are the verses being distorted to suggest the opposite of what they actually say?
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Sir, it really comes down to WHY they are conducting the terrorism. Remember, terrorism is a TACTIC used to achieve a goal, typically political or ideological in nature. So whatever goal or ideology the terrorist espouses will define what kind of terrorist they are. If they were drug kingpins who used terrorism to cow their rivals and law enforcement, then we could rightly call them "Narco-terrorists". If they are using terrorism to further the case of ecology ideology, then "Eco-terrorists" certainly applies. If they are using terrorism to further the case of an Islamic ideology, the "Islamic Terrorist" applies 100%. Simply being Muslim and committing a terrorist act does not make you an Islamic terrorist if the goal you are fighting for is not related to furthering the goal of Islam.
For example, a lot of the terrorism in the Middle East back in the 60-80's were conducted by Muslims associated with Hamas and Hezbollah. But the goal was not necessarily religious in nature. Yes there was a religious component to it, but their goal was primarily a political one: Destroy Israel so we can take our land back. That is vastly different that ISIS who wants to create the caliphate so they can force others to follow their fundamentalist view of Islam. Same goes for the IRA vs UK during the Troubles. While there was definitely a religious component to the conflict, the whole fight was not about Catholics vs Protestants, it was a political issue about sovereignty and colonialism. The terrorists happened to be Catholics committing acts on Protestants (and vice versa) but it was never really about religion. It just so happened that most nationalists were Catholics and most Loyalists were Protestants.
For example, a lot of the terrorism in the Middle East back in the 60-80's were conducted by Muslims associated with Hamas and Hezbollah. But the goal was not necessarily religious in nature. Yes there was a religious component to it, but their goal was primarily a political one: Destroy Israel so we can take our land back. That is vastly different that ISIS who wants to create the caliphate so they can force others to follow their fundamentalist view of Islam. Same goes for the IRA vs UK during the Troubles. While there was definitely a religious component to the conflict, the whole fight was not about Catholics vs Protestants, it was a political issue about sovereignty and colonialism. The terrorists happened to be Catholics committing acts on Protestants (and vice versa) but it was never really about religion. It just so happened that most nationalists were Catholics and most Loyalists were Protestants.
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COL Ted Mc
LTC Paul Labrador - Colonel; Agreed. However, those who are using terrorism to spread the narcotics trade ("Narco-terrorists") are in it for the money and very few of the "leaders" actually use the stuff they peddle.
The same can (and should) be said for the "leaders" of the "Islamo-Terrorists" - although I will grant that the "rank and file" ARE motivated by what they have been told the "good of Islam" is (well, that and lots of drugs, loot, and the chance of rapine).
I won't comment on the "leaders" of the "Eco-Terrorists" simply because [a] I couldn't do it while remaining polite, and [b] there aren't any.
The same can (and should) be said for the "leaders" of the "Islamo-Terrorists" - although I will grant that the "rank and file" ARE motivated by what they have been told the "good of Islam" is (well, that and lots of drugs, loot, and the chance of rapine).
I won't comment on the "leaders" of the "Eco-Terrorists" simply because [a] I couldn't do it while remaining polite, and [b] there aren't any.
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LTC Paul Labrador
COL Ted Mc - Again sir, terrorism is merely a tactic used to achieve a desired end-state. It's a means to an end, no more, no less. It is the user who defines what the desired end-state is.
And yeah, I agree that the leaders of movements (whether they are narco-terrorists or Islamo-terrorists) rarely buy what they are peddling....
And yeah, I agree that the leaders of movements (whether they are narco-terrorists or Islamo-terrorists) rarely buy what they are peddling....
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COL Ted Mc
LTC Paul Labrador - Colonel; You are quite correct. "Terrorism" is a tactic and not a philosophy or religion. "Nihilism" comes close but isn't quite the same thing AND isn't applicable here.
One cannot "eliminate" a tactic, but one can eliminate the conditions which lead people to employ that tactic. Sometimes that can be done by eliminating the approval given to the people who employ the tactic and sometimes it can be done by rectifying the underlying socioeconomic conditions which led to the adoption of the tactic in the first place.
Currently it doesn't appear that either of those courses are being adopted.
In some ways the Middle East situation parallels the current "Mass Shooting Problem" in the US - which IS NOT TO SAY that the current "Mass Shooting Problem" in the US is "Terrorism" - where the debate on solution is (essentially) "More Guns vs. Fewer
Guns" while the underlying causes of the problem are almost completely ignored.
As I see it, the solution to the current "Mass Shooting Problem" is NEITHER "More Guns" nor "Fewer Guns" but rather decreasing the "glorification of violence as a means of 'settling matters' - even trivial matters" and establishing a climate where all people actually believe that they have some realistic chance of achieving what they want to achieve.
One cannot "eliminate" a tactic, but one can eliminate the conditions which lead people to employ that tactic. Sometimes that can be done by eliminating the approval given to the people who employ the tactic and sometimes it can be done by rectifying the underlying socioeconomic conditions which led to the adoption of the tactic in the first place.
Currently it doesn't appear that either of those courses are being adopted.
In some ways the Middle East situation parallels the current "Mass Shooting Problem" in the US - which IS NOT TO SAY that the current "Mass Shooting Problem" in the US is "Terrorism" - where the debate on solution is (essentially) "More Guns vs. Fewer
Guns" while the underlying causes of the problem are almost completely ignored.
As I see it, the solution to the current "Mass Shooting Problem" is NEITHER "More Guns" nor "Fewer Guns" but rather decreasing the "glorification of violence as a means of 'settling matters' - even trivial matters" and establishing a climate where all people actually believe that they have some realistic chance of achieving what they want to achieve.
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Definitions:
1. Terrorism: the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
2. Imperialism: a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.
3. Infidel: Someone who has a different faith
1. Terrorism: the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
2. Imperialism: a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.
3. Infidel: Someone who has a different faith
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
I vote for 'Islamic Terrorist' as Muslims (adherents of Islam) are using violence and intimidation in pursuit of a political theocracy to subjugate 'infidels' under their strict interpretation of Islamic (sharia) law.
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The order to kill, maim, behead, rape, crucify, cut the feet and hands on opposite sides of the infidel date back to 1400 years ago. Those orders are being printed by the millions in each fresh koran coming off the press. These are the same verses that have been gracing the pages of this benevolent peaceful koran as PC would have it. Here are some samples:
Ishaq:208 Now we bound ourselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle.
He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves
to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances."
Sura 9:121 Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them.”
Bukhari:V1B11N626 “The Prophet said, “burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer,
burning them alive inside their homes.’”
(Women)
Tabari IX:113 Treat women well for they are like domestic animals, they possess nothing themselves.
Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."
Sura 48:29 - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are ruthless against the
non-muslims and merciful among themselves.
Sura 9:30 - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the
son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!
Sura 8:12 - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and
strike off every fingertip of them.
Sura 9:123 - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them
find in you hardness
Sura 5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make
mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and
their feet should be cut off on opposite sides.
Sura 8:55 Surely the filthiest of animals in Allah's sight are non-muslims.
Qur'an 8:39 "Wage war on non-muslims and kill them until they submit and the only religion is Islam."
Qur'an 9:5 "Fight and kill non-muslims wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them,
lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of jihad."
Ishaq:289 "Muhammad summoned the Muslims and said, 'This is the Quraysh caravan containing
their property. Go out and attack it. Perhaps Allah will give it to us as loot."
Qur'an 8:12 "I shall terrorize non-muslims. So cut their bodies and cut off their limbs.
because they oppose allah and His prophet"
Tabari VIII:141 "The war cry of the Muslims of Allah was: 'Kill! Kill! Kill!
Qur'an 3:150 "Soon We muslims shall strike terror into the hearts of non-muslims.
Tabari VIII:116 "So Muhammad began stealing their herds and their property bit by bit.
Ishaq:327 "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives.
Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"
Qur'an:8:67 "It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter.
Qur'an 7:3 "Little do you remember My warning. How many civilizations have We destroyed.
Ishaq:588 "When muhammad descends on your land none of your people will be left.
Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive."
Tabari VII:11 "The Messenger of Allah went out on a raid as far as Waddan, searching for Quraysh."
Bukhari:V5B59N401 "Allah's Wrath became severe on anyone the Prophet killed in Allah's Cause."
Ishaq:297 "When the Apostle saw them he cried, 'Allah, they called me a liar. Destroy them!!!
Qur'an:4:77 "Allah, why have You ordained killing for us, why have You made war compulsory?"
B24N555 "The Prophet said, 'Allah hates you for asking too many questions.'"
Ishaq:567 "Muhammad informed Umar [the second Caliph], and he called the Prophet a liar."
Ishaq:323 "Allah and his Messenger are the best of deceivers.
Qur'an 5:119 "Allah will say: This is the day on which the Muslims will profit from Islam..."
Qur'an 5:10 "Those who reject, disbelieve and deny Our signs, proofs and verses will be companions of Hell-Fire."
Qur'an 8:39 "So fight them until there is no more non-Muslims and all submit to the religion of Allah alone.
Ishaq:595 "The Apostle said, 'Get him away from me and cut off his tongue.'"
Qur'an 2:104 "To those who don't submit there is a grievous punishment."
Qur'an 3:85 "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Surrender), never will it be accepted.
Qur'an 3:141 "This is so that Allah may test the faithful and destroy the unbelieving non-muslims."
Bukhari:V9B87N113 "The Prophet said, 'A good dream is from Allah, and a bad dream is from Satan.'"
Ishaq:243 "the Apostle said: 'Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!'
He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes
Bukhari:V4B51N73 "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shade of swords.'"
Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe disbelievers out to the last.'"
Qur'an 80:17 "Be cursed man! He has self-destructed. From what stuff did He create him? From nutfa
(male and female semen drops) He created him and set him in due proportion."
Qur'an 5:51 "muslims!, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."
Qur'an 3:19 "Lo! religion with Allah (is) Surrender."
Tabari VII:85 "Muhammad killed many Quraysh polytheists at Badr."
Bukhari:V1B1N6 "Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country."
Tabari VII:97 "The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, 'Kill any Jew.
Bukhari:V4B52N260 "The Prophet said, 'If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.'"
Ishaq:208 Now we bound ourselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle.
He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves
to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances."
Sura 9:121 Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them.”
Bukhari:V1B11N626 “The Prophet said, “burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer,
burning them alive inside their homes.’”
(Women)
Tabari IX:113 Treat women well for they are like domestic animals, they possess nothing themselves.
Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."
Sura 48:29 - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are ruthless against the
non-muslims and merciful among themselves.
Sura 9:30 - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the
son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!
Sura 8:12 - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and
strike off every fingertip of them.
Sura 9:123 - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them
find in you hardness
Sura 5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make
mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and
their feet should be cut off on opposite sides.
Sura 8:55 Surely the filthiest of animals in Allah's sight are non-muslims.
Qur'an 8:39 "Wage war on non-muslims and kill them until they submit and the only religion is Islam."
Qur'an 9:5 "Fight and kill non-muslims wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them,
lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of jihad."
Ishaq:289 "Muhammad summoned the Muslims and said, 'This is the Quraysh caravan containing
their property. Go out and attack it. Perhaps Allah will give it to us as loot."
Qur'an 8:12 "I shall terrorize non-muslims. So cut their bodies and cut off their limbs.
because they oppose allah and His prophet"
Tabari VIII:141 "The war cry of the Muslims of Allah was: 'Kill! Kill! Kill!
Qur'an 3:150 "Soon We muslims shall strike terror into the hearts of non-muslims.
Tabari VIII:116 "So Muhammad began stealing their herds and their property bit by bit.
Ishaq:327 "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives.
Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"
Qur'an:8:67 "It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter.
Qur'an 7:3 "Little do you remember My warning. How many civilizations have We destroyed.
Ishaq:588 "When muhammad descends on your land none of your people will be left.
Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive."
Tabari VII:11 "The Messenger of Allah went out on a raid as far as Waddan, searching for Quraysh."
Bukhari:V5B59N401 "Allah's Wrath became severe on anyone the Prophet killed in Allah's Cause."
Ishaq:297 "When the Apostle saw them he cried, 'Allah, they called me a liar. Destroy them!!!
Qur'an:4:77 "Allah, why have You ordained killing for us, why have You made war compulsory?"
B24N555 "The Prophet said, 'Allah hates you for asking too many questions.'"
Ishaq:567 "Muhammad informed Umar [the second Caliph], and he called the Prophet a liar."
Ishaq:323 "Allah and his Messenger are the best of deceivers.
Qur'an 5:119 "Allah will say: This is the day on which the Muslims will profit from Islam..."
Qur'an 5:10 "Those who reject, disbelieve and deny Our signs, proofs and verses will be companions of Hell-Fire."
Qur'an 8:39 "So fight them until there is no more non-Muslims and all submit to the religion of Allah alone.
Ishaq:595 "The Apostle said, 'Get him away from me and cut off his tongue.'"
Qur'an 2:104 "To those who don't submit there is a grievous punishment."
Qur'an 3:85 "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Surrender), never will it be accepted.
Qur'an 3:141 "This is so that Allah may test the faithful and destroy the unbelieving non-muslims."
Bukhari:V9B87N113 "The Prophet said, 'A good dream is from Allah, and a bad dream is from Satan.'"
Ishaq:243 "the Apostle said: 'Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!'
He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes
Bukhari:V4B51N73 "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shade of swords.'"
Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe disbelievers out to the last.'"
Qur'an 80:17 "Be cursed man! He has self-destructed. From what stuff did He create him? From nutfa
(male and female semen drops) He created him and set him in due proportion."
Qur'an 5:51 "muslims!, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."
Qur'an 3:19 "Lo! religion with Allah (is) Surrender."
Tabari VII:85 "Muhammad killed many Quraysh polytheists at Badr."
Bukhari:V1B1N6 "Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country."
Tabari VII:97 "The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, 'Kill any Jew.
Bukhari:V4B52N260 "The Prophet said, 'If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.'"
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COL Ted Mc
PV2 Scott Goodpasture - Private; The same (generic) orders are in every copy of "The Bible" and date back MORE THAN 1400 years ago.
So what's your point?
Are you telling me that "The Bible" DOES NOT condone slavery or the subjugation of women or genocide or wars of conquest or putting the unbelievers to death or stoning adulterous women?
So what's your point?
Are you telling me that "The Bible" DOES NOT condone slavery or the subjugation of women or genocide or wars of conquest or putting the unbelievers to death or stoning adulterous women?
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They should be called terrorists only. Calling them anything else plays ISIS's game. We have to play the soft side of this. Defuse the people ISIS wants to energize against us.
If you decide you are tired of picking up body parts you will adopt this idea.
Walt
If you decide you are tired of picking up body parts you will adopt this idea.
Walt
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COL Ted Mc
Capt Walter Miller - Captain; I agree. Playing the enemy's game makes about as much sense as yelling "Hey, if you guys need some more ammo we'll be glad to toss it over to you." in the middle of a fire fight.
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Capt Walter Miller
Thank you, Sir.
We had this on another thread – it is extremely difficult if not impossible to find these wannabee jihadists curdling into martyrs in their parents’ basement. There is no way to monitor their activity, no way to impede their access to weapons, and no way to tell when they reach a tipping point.
Frankly guys, ISIS has turned our gun culture into a weapon potently aimed right at us. We can’t play their game.
Walt
We had this on another thread – it is extremely difficult if not impossible to find these wannabee jihadists curdling into martyrs in their parents’ basement. There is no way to monitor their activity, no way to impede their access to weapons, and no way to tell when they reach a tipping point.
Frankly guys, ISIS has turned our gun culture into a weapon potently aimed right at us. We can’t play their game.
Walt
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There will always be Muslim Terrorists as many poor Muslims see the decadence of the West with jealous eyes. They are angry at their station in life, want to be part of the agent of change, and want to be part of something greater than the individual.
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COL Ted Mc
MAJ Ken Landgren - Major; As I see it, to a great extent you are correct.
One of the reasons behind the jealousy is that the "political leadership" in the Middle East makes every effort to make sure that the eyes of the people are focused on the "richness" of "The West" and closed to the "richness" of the "political leadership".
One of the reasons behind the jealousy is that the "political leadership" in the Middle East makes every effort to make sure that the eyes of the people are focused on the "richness" of "The West" and closed to the "richness" of the "political leadership".
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