Posted on Jan 14, 2014
Are you supposed to salute the flag while walking by it?
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<p>Since I have been in one of the foremost custom and courtesies that have been drilled into me is saluting. Whether it be officers or our nations flag and I have no problem making a correction (tactfully) when needed. Now I have respecfully brought this up to multiple superiors where I work (which is not a designated no hat no salute area) that when they walk pass that flag in the morning and evening they should be saluting it in accordance with FM 7-21.13 Chapter 4 Paragraph 23. I have gotten this way after getting to my first duty station and being told to bring a 1SG in our BN the reg after i did not salute the flag. Now am I misinterpreting this regulation or am I right in trying to ensure that my leaders set an appropriate example for my peers. <br><br>I have even had a couple of NCO's tell me that they have never heard of any such reg the whole time they have been in the Army and these are SSG and above. </p><p> </p><p>Whats your thoughts? Correct me if I am wrong.</p>
Posted in these groups: 
Saluting
Customs and Courtesies
Saluting Customs and Courtesies
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 15
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I am 25 years retired after a 30 year career. When I pass by our flag I still salute. Respect for our country and all who have served.
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SPC Patrick - the key to this is that there are "flags" and there are "colors". Totally different items.
Read carefully in the regulation about what to salute - I think you will find most of the time it is the "colors", not the "flag".
And study up on what is displayed on a flagpole - "colors" or a "flag"
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SFC (Join to see)
CSM,
I have tried looking for a definition on the two, but I can't find one. Do you happen to know where I should look?
SFC Wilbanks
I have tried looking for a definition on the two, but I can't find one. Do you happen to know where I should look?
SFC Wilbanks
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CSM Mike Maynard
SFC (Join to see) - The definition of a color can be found in the glossary of AR 840–10. It's a rather long regulation, but if you read thoroughly, you will see different customs & courtesies for "flags" and for "colors".
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4-23 states:
When you are passing or being passed by colors that are being presented, paraded, or DISPLAYED, salute when the colors are six paces from you. Hold the salute until the colors are six paces beyond you.
I would like to look into this more since when I was at the OLD GUARD we never did this. My old unit was good at changing policy if an unnone regulation came to their atention, so my above statment could change if this is the proper way to interpret this reg.
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SPC Robert Patrick
It does define a flag being displayed in FM 7-21.13 Chapter 4-20
and it when passing or being passed by.
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SPC Robert Patrick
All Army installations will display the flag of the United States outdoors.
Continental United States (CONUS) Army installations will fly only one flag of the United States at a time except as authorized by the commanding generals of major Army commands.
Installations will display the flag daily from reveille to retreat.
When a number of flags are displayed from staffs set in a line, the flag of the United States will be at the right; to the left of an observer facing the display. If no foreign national flags are present, the flag of the United States may be placed at the center of the line providing it is displayed at a higher level.
When the flag of the United States is displayed with state flags, all of the state flags will be of comparable size.
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You are not required or expected to salute a flag when You walk by it. A flag on a stationary pole needs to be saluted only when the National Anthem, or to the colors are played. In that case if You hear only the music face the music, if You can see the flag face the flag and salute. You are required to salute at all times when uncased colors are being carried past You by a color guard. There are no other requirements in any Regulation and anyone that told You anything to the contrary need to get their facts straight and if it isn't in the Regulations it isn't required or expected.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Sgt Frillman, First every person in the Armed Forces of the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard is taught this in their boot camp/Basic training. Also Federal Law, Section 301(b) Title 36 of the United States Code requires what I have described. Military Regulations which like Federal Law are in "Black and White" In the US Army Regulations AR 840-10 and also FM 3-21-5, Drills and ceremonies and the earlier FM22-5 require this. Also for the Air Force, AFI-36-2203, Drills and Ceremonies also spell this out, in "black and white." I may also add that for the US Marine Corp. MCO P5060.20, Marine Corp Drill and Ceremonies also spells that out in "Black and White" When I have made a statement such as this I have consulted the Regulations and have taught classes to active duty as well a Cadets in Military Customs and traditions and instructed in Military Customs and ceremonies. You say You were NCO, Sergeant, E5 in the Marine Corps, I do know the Marines taught this and the Commandant of the Marine Corp had ordered all Marines to be very familiar with these orders. (He said so also in black and white). Is that enough sources in black and white for You ?
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SFC Jim Ruether
When in the presence of a flag on the pole and your path is going to take you buy it you salute 6 paces from the flag and hold that salute until you are 6 paces beyond it. When done correctly it looks amazing and is respectful of our Flag.
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FM 7-21.13 I believe was first published around 2003. Prior to this I recall no mention of saluting the flag while walking. The actual regulation (AR 600-25) makes no mention that I could find. I can see why some of us old guys might not be aware of the change.
The FM does not provide a whole lot of clarity as to what passing the colors entails. AR 840-10 seems to indicate that displaying the colors is accomplished by flying it on the flagpole.
The FM does not provide a whole lot of clarity as to what passing the colors entails. AR 840-10 seems to indicate that displaying the colors is accomplished by flying it on the flagpole.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SSG Dale London - Yes, and that applies to colors passing by You and it has never changed, the older Manual FM22-5 Drills and ceremonies made the same statement as the Current and newer Army replacement manual which is FM 3-215, Drill and ceremonies.
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SSG Brian Carpenter
You say 2003 but I was in BNCOC in 1999 and by regulations it was still six before six after.
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There are no "Superiors", only "Seniors". I cannot imagine a scenario where a senior NCO or officer would correct you for saluting our nation's flag/colors/ensign/ol' glory whether the regulation dictates or not.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
i couldn't picture that either, requirements are spelled out but if You go beyond I doubt anyone would be upset by it. The Navy also adds to the Regulations other services have esp when boarding a ship and saluting the flag and other traditions that are in line with Navel tradition and not seen in other branches of the Armed Forces. It seems to Me also if You in the Navel settings and from another branch You should at least become familiar with some of those requirements that may not exist with other services.
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Correcting is one thing - how and when you do it is another. Discretion is the better part of valor. Are you doing it because this is your control mechanism, is it essential, and are you annoying people that otherwise do not need to be annoyed?
I have been married a long time. What I have found is that it does me no good to prove I am am right. And, the only thing I will accomplish if I do is that I am being pig-headed and I annoyed my wife for which there there are consequences.
So, what is important to you? And to others around you? It is good policy to follow your own belief without pushing others to do it if it is otherwise inconsequential. Lead by example, and educate by anecdote.
I have been married a long time. What I have found is that it does me no good to prove I am am right. And, the only thing I will accomplish if I do is that I am being pig-headed and I annoyed my wife for which there there are consequences.
So, what is important to you? And to others around you? It is good policy to follow your own belief without pushing others to do it if it is otherwise inconsequential. Lead by example, and educate by anecdote.
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Having been stationed with U.S. Marines, their protocol requires they "Salute all Officers and all Standards & Colors not cased." I believe this is the 10th General Order, of the 11 military general orders. They're exceptions in a duty status, however, every time they were returning to our command, they saluted the U.S. Flag <Colors> when on the flag pole. IMHO, the Marines are the SMEs on U.S. Flag protocol. Navy Regs <my branch> clearly states 1st time and last time seen during the work day on shore duty, and each and every time you arrive and depart a naval ship and/or vessel <small boats are different>. When "Colors" is rendered, all in uniform stop, face the flag <or direction> and salute..... that's at sun rise and sun set on military bases.
This probably isn't the exact response you need, however it does show, one service salutes the colors/flag no matter what....
Regards....
This probably isn't the exact response you need, however it does show, one service salutes the colors/flag no matter what....
Regards....
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When Trooping the Line during a parade the trooping party renders a salute to the colors which are stationary at that time!
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