Posted on Apr 15, 2015
Are you/we surprised? U.S. Soldiers, Back in Iraq, Find Security Forces in Disrepair....
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Yes, we did the best we could to train and hand over security and policing to the GOI, within the timelines we were given... But did, we leave too soon?
Did you have confidence in the long term prognosis when you left?
Remember, before you comment/opine... We are still in Germany, Japan, Korea etc... Lasting change takes a long time to take root.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/15/world/middleeast/iraq-military-united-states-forces-camp-taji.html?_r=2
"Iraq’s army looked good on paper when the Americans left, after one of the biggest training missions carried out under wartime conditions. But after that, senior Iraqi officers began buying their own commissions, paying for them out of the supply, food and payroll money of their troops. Corruption ran up and down the ranks; desertion was rife."
Did you have confidence in the long term prognosis when you left?
Remember, before you comment/opine... We are still in Germany, Japan, Korea etc... Lasting change takes a long time to take root.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/15/world/middleeast/iraq-military-united-states-forces-camp-taji.html?_r=2
"Iraq’s army looked good on paper when the Americans left, after one of the biggest training missions carried out under wartime conditions. But after that, senior Iraqi officers began buying their own commissions, paying for them out of the supply, food and payroll money of their troops. Corruption ran up and down the ranks; desertion was rife."
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 22
Not terribly surprised. During my first pump in Iraq, 2005-06, pre-surge, it almost amused me how glowing if not giddy the reports were coming back saying, "The Iraqis are doing it! They're awesome!" I thought then as I do now that sentiment was, at best, a reach if not a delusion. It wasn't that good and anybody towing that company line by saying so was perpetuating the myth of Iraqi self-sufficiency.
Whether we left too soon is debatable. The fact that their lack-of-readiness is prevalent, isn't, not should it be much of a surprise to anyone. Under repressive regimes, which Saddam's was, you do whatever you're told and then hope like hell the consequences aren't visited on you and your family if you have the audacity to not do as you're told.
Taking the initiative and utilizing centralized planning and decentralized execution, unlike our military, was never encouraged, nor is it ever under totalitarian regimes. Essentially an entire country, also divided by religion and ethnic cleavages, grew up under the boot heal of being told what to do and do so without question. You can't undo that in a decade, although we tried valiantly. A helluva lotta hard work, ass-pain, misery and heartache was invested by the coalition in making them 'ready.'
Part of it, too, is cultural, the religious differences and paternalistic society notwithstanding. There are ages-old grudges between tribes, clans, ethnic sub-groups and even within families over things as basic as land, water, access to water and getting in on the oil trade. What our military tried to do was turn that mindset around. So did our State Department by trying to introduce the concept of federalism, with only mixed results at best, I'm sorry to say.
Until Iraq starts thinking of itself as Iraq and its citizens consistently thinking of themselves as Iraqis (and not Shia, Sunni and Kurd sub-groups), life in the fertile crescent will probably not be very pleasant. Not to mention the power vacuum its created in the Middle East and currently being exploited by the lunatic fringe.
Whether we left too soon is debatable. The fact that their lack-of-readiness is prevalent, isn't, not should it be much of a surprise to anyone. Under repressive regimes, which Saddam's was, you do whatever you're told and then hope like hell the consequences aren't visited on you and your family if you have the audacity to not do as you're told.
Taking the initiative and utilizing centralized planning and decentralized execution, unlike our military, was never encouraged, nor is it ever under totalitarian regimes. Essentially an entire country, also divided by religion and ethnic cleavages, grew up under the boot heal of being told what to do and do so without question. You can't undo that in a decade, although we tried valiantly. A helluva lotta hard work, ass-pain, misery and heartache was invested by the coalition in making them 'ready.'
Part of it, too, is cultural, the religious differences and paternalistic society notwithstanding. There are ages-old grudges between tribes, clans, ethnic sub-groups and even within families over things as basic as land, water, access to water and getting in on the oil trade. What our military tried to do was turn that mindset around. So did our State Department by trying to introduce the concept of federalism, with only mixed results at best, I'm sorry to say.
Until Iraq starts thinking of itself as Iraq and its citizens consistently thinking of themselves as Iraqis (and not Shia, Sunni and Kurd sub-groups), life in the fertile crescent will probably not be very pleasant. Not to mention the power vacuum its created in the Middle East and currently being exploited by the lunatic fringe.
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