Posted on Apr 29, 2020
As a PSGT, how do I handle a situation if one of my NCOs thinks a soldier needing a shaving profile needs to get out of the Army?
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Hello everyone I just want opinions on this situation. So today at work I had an Soldier (PFC) come into my office and say he needed to talk to me in private, so of course I stepped aside with him and asked him what was wrong, so this Soldier told me that his squad leader which is an E-5 told him that “ Soldiers that has an shaving profile/ needs a shaving profile doesn’t need to be in the Army/ needs to get out of the army” And yes this Soldier does have a shaving profile, so I told the Soldier I was going to handle the situation. (This is the 2nd time the NCO has said this by the way but I wasn’t in the company when it happened) So later that day I pulled the NCO aside and asked him did he say what the Soldier told me he replied with “ yes I did say it and that is how I feel” I told the nco not to say it again and that he can’t be saying things like that. Both of them are African Americans (just throwing that in before anyone questions it) so I want to know did I handle the situation correctly? Is it EO? And if this happens again how should I handle it ?
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Sexual Harassment and Assault Response and Prevention (SHARP)
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Sexual Harassment and Assault Response and Prevention (SHARP) Equal Opportunity (EO) Sgt Officers Warrant Officers
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 36
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I would have done the same thing. I also would have come armed with the regs and/or medical info about shaving profiles or had the young NCO do the research and get back with me to report the findings
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IMHO, you did right SFC (Join to see). All that young NCO is doing with those statements is creating hostility and toxic environments. And if they continue with those comments/statements....fire them. At least, that is what I'd do.
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MSG (Join to see)
SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" - Probably. And then get checked real fast, quick and in a mad hurry.
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MSG (Join to see)
SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" - PLUS.....now that I think about it.....this would result in a HUGE "Needs Improvement" check in the LEADS box of the NCOER
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I agree with JP SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4". It is completely unprofessional for any NCO to berate a fellow soldier with their opinion. NCOs have three primary duties: accomplish the mission, train and care for their charges (personnel), and care for and maintain military property. None of those include sharing your opinion on how something should be. This kind of behavior is why many young soldiers become discouraged and leave the military.
COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen F. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen SPC Woody Bullard CPL Dave Hoover CW5 Jack Cardwell Lt Col Charlie Brown Col Carl Whicker SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SPC Margaret Higgins LTC Greg Henning Maj William W. 'Bill' Price SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT John " Mac " McConnell LTC Wayne Brandon PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SPC Douglas Bolton PVT Mark Zehner
COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen F. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen SPC Woody Bullard CPL Dave Hoover CW5 Jack Cardwell Lt Col Charlie Brown Col Carl Whicker SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SPC Margaret Higgins LTC Greg Henning Maj William W. 'Bill' Price SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT John " Mac " McConnell LTC Wayne Brandon PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SPC Douglas Bolton PVT Mark Zehner
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Totally agree. When I was in, and also a commander, shaving waivers were a medical condition. Don't know if that's still the situation, but frankly any NCO who disagrees with the pronouncements of a trained physician probably doesn't belong in the Army.
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Reading through some of the other comments, I am surprised by some of the posts that are against shaving profiles.
Pseudofolliculitis Barbae is a potentially serious medial condition. Would anyone want to shave with this condition?
Pseudofolliculitis Barbae is a potentially serious medial condition. Would anyone want to shave with this condition?
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You did well, if the SM is with the profile- it damn well doesn't matter what
the NCO thinks. Comments like this are un-professional and reflect badly on the NCO, Counsel him to keep his personal opinions to his self, or he will be the one trouble. I didn't like them either, but kept my mouth shut cause the Dr, issued it.
the NCO thinks. Comments like this are un-professional and reflect badly on the NCO, Counsel him to keep his personal opinions to his self, or he will be the one trouble. I didn't like them either, but kept my mouth shut cause the Dr, issued it.
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I think you handled it well.
I am not a fan of shaving profiles but that's because it is so readily exploited by Soldiers and any correcting is typically met with EO complaints and founded or unfounded - EO complaints will ruin you.
I've seen plenty of people with shaving profiles have all kinds of styling and blatant disregard for the fact that it's a medical condition with prescribed treatment from the provider (length, how often to trim, what portion of face, etc). I think it is these problems that cause reactions such as what your E5 had. The profiles need to be enforced better (Army wide), as well as the NCO shut his face for his remarks.
I am not a fan of shaving profiles but that's because it is so readily exploited by Soldiers and any correcting is typically met with EO complaints and founded or unfounded - EO complaints will ruin you.
I've seen plenty of people with shaving profiles have all kinds of styling and blatant disregard for the fact that it's a medical condition with prescribed treatment from the provider (length, how often to trim, what portion of face, etc). I think it is these problems that cause reactions such as what your E5 had. The profiles need to be enforced better (Army wide), as well as the NCO shut his face for his remarks.
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Unfortunately, shaving profiles or individuals with one are not considered a protected category. A lot of the military in general disapproves of shaving profiles. If the NCO in question has a belief and that's how he feels, you cant really do anything besides tell him to be more professional about it.
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Yep - you handled it right. I would advise you to fire up a formal counselling regarding the NCO's misaprehension regarding medical profiles, his poor attitude towards his soldiers and reminding him that squad morale and discipline are his responsibility. Saying things like that can result in a lack of trust in him by his subordinates. If he continues in his poor attitude towards his soldiers there may -- in fact, almost certainly will be serious discipline problems later.
He needs to learn to keep his personal feelings to himself. He needs to do things the army way, not the SGT Schmuckatelli way.
He needs to learn to keep his personal feelings to himself. He needs to do things the army way, not the SGT Schmuckatelli way.
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I agree with the other responses that this is not an EO situation as a medical profile is not a protected category.
It appears as if the NCO would benefit from some mentoring on leadership. He needs to learn that an effective leader should treat others with dignity and respect. There are clearly defined regulations that supersede his personal opinions. As long as the SM is compliant within the limits of his profile, then it should be a nonissue.
This post prompted a discussion with one of my former supervisors. She mentioned that it could be a form of bullying which I didn't initially consider. Should the NCO's behavior continue after some mentorship, I think treating it as a bullying situation would be a good course of action.
It appears as if the NCO would benefit from some mentoring on leadership. He needs to learn that an effective leader should treat others with dignity and respect. There are clearly defined regulations that supersede his personal opinions. As long as the SM is compliant within the limits of his profile, then it should be a nonissue.
This post prompted a discussion with one of my former supervisors. She mentioned that it could be a form of bullying which I didn't initially consider. Should the NCO's behavior continue after some mentorship, I think treating it as a bullying situation would be a good course of action.
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Thank you SFC (Join to see) for posting a great question articulately and respectfully.
It is refreshing to see a post with both those applying.
Thank you my friend SGT (Join to see) for mentioning me.
I agree with the salient points of my friend SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SGM Bill Frazer MSG (Join to see) 1SG Mark Flowers and most of the others responders.
It is refreshing to see a post with both those applying.
Thank you my friend SGT (Join to see) for mentioning me.
I agree with the salient points of my friend SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SGM Bill Frazer MSG (Join to see) 1SG Mark Flowers and most of the others responders.
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