Posted on Apr 29, 2020
As a PSGT, how do I handle a situation if one of my NCOs thinks a soldier needing a shaving profile needs to get out of the Army?
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Hello everyone I just want opinions on this situation. So today at work I had an Soldier (PFC) come into my office and say he needed to talk to me in private, so of course I stepped aside with him and asked him what was wrong, so this Soldier told me that his squad leader which is an E-5 told him that “ Soldiers that has an shaving profile/ needs a shaving profile doesn’t need to be in the Army/ needs to get out of the army” And yes this Soldier does have a shaving profile, so I told the Soldier I was going to handle the situation. (This is the 2nd time the NCO has said this by the way but I wasn’t in the company when it happened) So later that day I pulled the NCO aside and asked him did he say what the Soldier told me he replied with “ yes I did say it and that is how I feel” I told the nco not to say it again and that he can’t be saying things like that. Both of them are African Americans (just throwing that in before anyone questions it) so I want to know did I handle the situation correctly? Is it EO? And if this happens again how should I handle it ?
Posted in these groups: 
Sexual Harassment and Assault Response and Prevention (SHARP)
Equal Opportunity (EO)
Sgt
Officers
Warrant Officers
Sexual Harassment and Assault Response and Prevention (SHARP) Equal Opportunity (EO) Sgt Officers Warrant Officers
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 36
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He doesn’t get an opinion on medical profiles. He is not that soldier’s doctor. The NCO needs a formal counseling session to help him understand the scope of his authority.
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I might find shaving profiles a little funky (says the guy who once had a "no yelling, no cadence calling" profile...seriously!) but I understand the need for them and have known a few guys on them who were fine soldiers.
Sounds like you have an NCO whose Hooah! feelings, while passionate--and passionate is good--are not well placed in this instance. The soldier is on profile and is following his profile. Here endeth the story. Seems to me like you handled it quite well.
Sounds like you have an NCO whose Hooah! feelings, while passionate--and passionate is good--are not well placed in this instance. The soldier is on profile and is following his profile. Here endeth the story. Seems to me like you handled it quite well.
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I think you handled it correctly and if the NCO does it again they need to be Counceled.
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As near as I can tell, It is something called workplace harassment. It doesn't fall under sexual harassment guidelines, because there is no sexual overtone, but does fall under the guidelines for creating a hostile work environment. This E5 squad leader is telling someone his personal opinion, yes, but because he is a supervisor in a workplace it is creating hostility.
I had to deal with a similar situation in the kitchen when newer staff members were telling seniors that they should retire. Whether right or wrong, these things should not be said. As long as you put a stop to it, for now just inform the E5 that his belief cannot be expressed in that manner. Some higher commander is allowing this soldier to not shave. I am a mental health worker and N95 masks do not fit correctly so the NCO has some justification for his words, but that doesn't mean he can make the soldiers life hell.
He cannot violate the orders of the higher commander, esp. if the person is an MD or RN. If he goes against your orders it is now insubordination and harassment. If he goes against your and an MD's direction, now it is a a real issue. So possibly an ART 15 at that point, but not sure. I'm not an expert on UCMJ, but many of these rules are in civilian jobs as well.
I had to deal with a similar situation in the kitchen when newer staff members were telling seniors that they should retire. Whether right or wrong, these things should not be said. As long as you put a stop to it, for now just inform the E5 that his belief cannot be expressed in that manner. Some higher commander is allowing this soldier to not shave. I am a mental health worker and N95 masks do not fit correctly so the NCO has some justification for his words, but that doesn't mean he can make the soldiers life hell.
He cannot violate the orders of the higher commander, esp. if the person is an MD or RN. If he goes against your orders it is now insubordination and harassment. If he goes against your and an MD's direction, now it is a a real issue. So possibly an ART 15 at that point, but not sure. I'm not an expert on UCMJ, but many of these rules are in civilian jobs as well.
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I would move PFC snuffy to a different squad if possible before things get stupid. Temporary fix but reduces the chances of this SGT hazing/harnessing the PFC. just the perspective of a junior enlisted soldier sergeant.
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SSG Dale London
That assumes that PFC Snuffy is problem, which he is not. The real issue is a failure of character in Snuffy's squad leader. Moving PFC Snuffy merely papers over the crack. It doesn't fix it.
In order to prevent this issue -- or something similar cropping up later between another soldier and this NCO, the NCO needs to be shown the error of his ways and be given the opportunity to adjust himself. If he cannot do that then other action needs to be taken. The army should not tolerate poor leadership in its junior NCO's. They play too important a role in war-fighting.
In order to prevent this issue -- or something similar cropping up later between another soldier and this NCO, the NCO needs to be shown the error of his ways and be given the opportunity to adjust himself. If he cannot do that then other action needs to be taken. The army should not tolerate poor leadership in its junior NCO's. They play too important a role in war-fighting.
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SPC (Join to see)
SSG Dale London I 100% agree sergeant but in the meantime though you have a NCO that will likely treat this soldier unfairly. Removing PFC Snuffy from this environment buys time to correct this E-5
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Personal Opinions can not replace policy. If the young soldier has a shaving profile due to a medical condition just ask three pertinent questions. 1) Is the profile current and in effect until a specific end date. 2) Is the soldier maintaining grooming standards consistent within the limits of the profile. If the answers are Yes, the soldier should be good to go. 3) Has the Soldier been counseled by Medical Authority on methods to reduce the likelihood of recurrence once the current event has been resolved?
You are allowed to ask general questions about the condition with a medical authority, however names and identifying information should not be discussed. A Dermatologist can also provide insight on the nature of the specific skin issues, with ingrown hair there are some treatment treatment options the Physician can recommend, if the skin shows eruptions due to ingrown hairs; shaving is generally not recommended, but a personal grooming tool can keep the facial hair closely trimmed with out aggravating the existing skin condition.
Also ask Medical Control if the situation is caused by Contact Dermatitis? What is the soldier exposed to that may be causing the issue? Generally protective masks do not cause a reaction. however some cleansing products can cause skin reactions.
In regards to how to address the profile S1 should be able to provide guidance as well.
You are allowed to ask general questions about the condition with a medical authority, however names and identifying information should not be discussed. A Dermatologist can also provide insight on the nature of the specific skin issues, with ingrown hair there are some treatment treatment options the Physician can recommend, if the skin shows eruptions due to ingrown hairs; shaving is generally not recommended, but a personal grooming tool can keep the facial hair closely trimmed with out aggravating the existing skin condition.
Also ask Medical Control if the situation is caused by Contact Dermatitis? What is the soldier exposed to that may be causing the issue? Generally protective masks do not cause a reaction. however some cleansing products can cause skin reactions.
In regards to how to address the profile S1 should be able to provide guidance as well.
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